Discussion in 'General 4x4 Discussion' started by rogerazz, Sep 5, 2018.
So you can lower a car but not lift it?
Or is it just over a set height, as you can't lower any car below 100mm
This is going to be interesting.
Fair enough mate,I think the Cops are doing them a favour especially when it comes to Insurance etc
Or the other poor bugger if they are involved in an accident.
I had to have my car checked when changing the rego from NSW to Qld in early 2017 and was told by the inspecting garage that is was legal with the 50mm suspension lift and additional 2" increase in tyre diameter, a total of 75mm lift overall and the maximum allowable under Qld law. So how can a copper on the roadside determine the exact lift of my vehicle?? Are they guessing?? Are they measuring?? Are they going to take the part no. off my Koni springs and check it?? Are they going to take my word?? "I swear officer, it's only 50mm, honest."
Nah...the coppers will just give you a defect and let the transport mob sort out whether or not it's legal
From the tmr qld gov site...In Qld, a vehicle's ride height can be increased in a number of ways. These include:
Tyre diameter increase
Raising a vehicle's suspension
The limit a vehicle's ride height can be increased is dependent on which combination of the above method(s) are used. Each of the above vehicle lift methods have a maximum allowable increase they can achieve (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm, maximum body block lift 50mm). The maximum total combined lift of the vehicle cannot exceed 125mm.
What a nightmare so what is it 75mm or 125mm
Im pretty sure Victoria is now 75mm it was 50mm
It’s not that simple unfortunately. There are different categories for solid axle, ifs and vehicles with stability control as well, each class diminishing in what you can do. If you have a new 4wd TC, and a noticeable lift and bigger tyres and no mod plate you will go. Twin cab mall cruiser owners take note.
Similar topic. Some time ago my young fella did some work on his Spec R Nissan twin turbo which included suspension work, done where they also worked on Porsche racers. Suspension was tops and very expensive, not a do it yourself but under strict camms racing requirements. He was picked up by the cops having a blitz on modified vehicles along with heaps of other young blokes. He was given a canary, cops assumed he was illegal and so I had to take his car into mechanics to get his suspension returned to original specs.
Nothing to do with safety or otherwise, just to do with original factory specs. The vehicle went from super stable and safe to not as super stable and safe.
Just that cops had no idea and did not like it sitting lower. Revenue raising????????
They did the same thing with imports here years ago and seriously thinned the numbers getting around. There is an insane amount of rangers/np300s getting around the coast that are going to be in for some strife.
It's certainly a controversial topic. If you drive an unsafe vehicle, you deserve to get the book thrown at you.
However, there are a lot of very well modified vehicles that are safe, but because they fall outside of the grounds of the law they are illegal. Likewise, a police officer rarely has the training or education to make that decision.
In WA, you can do everything by the book and get engineering done and signed off, and still cop a yellow sticker if the police deem it to be illegal, which is a hassle in taking your vehicle over the pits time and time again.
I've deliberately spent a lot of time and effort keeping my Dmax legal without engineering as its just too much to risk should something go wrong
Alot of it is guess work on the cops part, i know and understand and appreciate they are just doing their job, but when pinging someone for excessive lift or lowering or noise it is all guess work, so it is easier to give them an infringement and then let the user fight it and take it to the proper authorities to get the tick of approval then to let the vehicle drive the streets.
For example, unless they have the proper noise measuring device which as far as i know is only carried by the EPA guys when the occassinally run their stings, there is not way of telling a vehicle is above the 90db limit of whatever it is. Easier to give a ticket and the user to pay for tests to prove otherwise or just change to something quieter
The confusion comes from people not actually reading the full documents. Since November 2011 all cars in Australia by law are fitted with ESC. The National Code of Practise up until 2016 said you were not allowed to lift a vehicle with ESC. This was changed and now the NCOP and VSB14 states if the vehicle is fitted with ESC the maximum lift allowed is 50mm either by tyres or suspension and not a combination of the two.
It's Federal, applies to every state equally. Qld are just enforcing it heavily at the moment as people are taking the piss with 4"+ lifts and 35's.
TMR in QLD are very clear about it in G19, the QCOP, and their FAQ on the website so it should not be a surprise to anyone. Takes all of 5 mins of research to find. The pissy thing is now all the people with mild reasonable modifications are also being caught in the cross fire.
For my crusty old D2 I believe it is 75mm and the 125mm if for more modern machinery. Qld TMR have also (I believe, seen on another forum) been taking submissions on increasing the total to 150mm.
And for our "soft roader" members in Qld who may be looking at new tyres.
From the TMR website FAQ.
I have been told I can put 50mm large diameter tyres on my 4WD, they do this in other states and territories, is this permitted in Queensland?
Yes, the following types of vehicles can have their tyre diameter increased by up to 50mm or reduced by no more than 26mm from any tyre diameter designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle:
4WD passenger vehicles specifically designed for off-road use (typically MC ADR category), or
4WD goods vehicles and their 2WD equivalents if the chassis and running gear are essentially the same as the 4WD versions (N ADR category)
Please note: All wheel drive(AWD) vehicles, commonly known as soft roaders, are not to be considered as one of the above mentioned vehicles.
I guess you would have to look up the rules for light passenger vehicles in this case.
Ok here is some more specific information, and this applies to Qld where this seems to be escalating.
The following information provides some general guidance about raising a vehicle’s height
A vehicle lift up to and including 75mm combining both suspension lift and tyre diameter increase (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm) is acceptable under self-certification.
A vehicle lift between 76mm and 125mm inclusive, combining a suspension lift, a tyre diameter increase and a body lift (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm, maximum body lift 50mm) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person.
A suspension lift up to and including 50mm is acceptable under self-certification. A vehicle lift over 50 mm or due to a combination of any other lift (tyres, or body blocks) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person.
Please Note: The above mentioned maximum tyre diameter tyre increase is for 4WD off-road vehicles. A passenger car or passenger car derivatives must not increase their tyre diameter by more than 15mm.
Hope that clears things up.
For determining the lift height they have a book of tables that have a whole bunch of vehicle dimensions, but they one they would use is the factory measurements from the center of the hub to the point on the wheel arch directly above.
For a newish shape Ranger/BT50 its 552mm at the front and 600mm at the back (unladen).
A suspension lift will change that measurement, a body lift will also change that measurement, so a quick look at the relevant page and a tape measure will show if you are outside the set dimensions a unroadworthy sticker is applied and then its up to you to prove its good.
To find out what your Road Vehicle Descriptor dimensions are meant to be: http://myrta.com/rvd/searchRVD.do
This report makes interesting reading. https://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/217027/muarc262.pdf The roll over rate of 4wds is their main problem. Lifting them increases the chance of rolling.
You can modify your suspension and lift it then think it feels great on the road which they usually do. If you take the time to study suspension design in depth though, you may end up thinking what the hell have I done to its street handling particularly in emergency swerving situations or fast corners.
Nobody in the history of motor vehicles has raised the centre of gravity of cars to improve street handling. Very few 4wd owners have a clue about what tyre size, design and pressures do to street performance. That is just one small but vital part of suspension design. It can be improved but not when an inexperienced owner chooses tyres because he likes the size and appearance of them and fits aftermarket shocks that his mate recommends and so on. A car manufacturer's suspension design team does not do it that way.
Then there is the increased braking distance coming from the additional leverage being applied to the brakes by larger diameter tyres.
All of this is taken into account by those employed to collect and study accident statistics all over the country and that is where the regulations restricting alterations to the design of all types of cars come from. Those people are not concerned about how well a modified 4wd performs on a dirt track.
If I carry two sets of tyres in my Troopy, one set in heavy tread for wet and slippery roads, the other set would be bald slicks for hot dry roads, do I have to have a third set for gravel roads?? Pleaes help as I will be doing all three surfaces next week.
Oh, and I intend to run all tyres around 5 psi to lower my vehicle for more stability..
Which is the whole point. The cops are not experts on all the mods and they cannot be expected to check heights/noise levels etc at every roadside stop, which is why an infringement is issued so the vehicle is inspected by the people who's job it is to insure a vehicle passes muster. I see on plenty of forums and Facebook people having a crack at the cops for vehicle infringements, but personally I don't see the issue in what they are doing.
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