Front End Upgrade - Ball Joint Flip

cnut

Member
Ok, so I got the 50mm lift I needed on the back end, now the challenge is to get the same on the front.

Big problem with independent / torsion bar front ends is that when you jack the torsion bars, you may get the lift you want, but you sacrifice the available down or extension travel and that's not good. For example, the Standard Jackaroo has about 60mm of extension travel on the front wheels so if you jack up the torsion bars to give a 50mm lift, then you're left with a miserable 10mm of extension travel and that does nothing for traction when you're off road.

I read about the "ball joint flip" and how that improves the situation. Then after a bit more research, I came across a complete solution to the problem. Today, I installed that solution in my Jackaroo and the results were awesome. I now have a 50mm lift on the front end and still have 60mm of extension travel :)

Matt at www.independent4x.com was a huge help, they make mods for all sorts of 4wd's but since they are in the good ol US of A, I felt a bit uneasy about just placing an order and keeping my fingers crossed so I emailed for some more information. I got prompt and informative replies from Matt, he was able to answer all my questions and recommend an appropriate solution the price was pretty good too :)

Anyway, here's half of what I got (two sets in the kit)


Installation was simple and I was able to complete the whole job in about an hour.

Stage one - release the upper ball joint from the knuckle. Notice how the ball joint is bolted to the top of the upper control arm. You have the most room at this stage to do the droop stop, so just pull the old one out and replace it with the low profile stop from the kit. You can see mine is already installed in this photo. (The shiny bolt sticking up through the control arm)


Stage two - unbolt the upper ball joint, remove it from the control arm and reinstall it in the knuckle. Then place the spacer on top of that.


Stage three - using a jack, lift the whole assembly up and using the high tensile bolts that came with the kit, bolt the ball joint and space back to the underside of the control arm


That's all there is too it, just repeat on the other side, throw some wheels back on, drop her back on the ground and adjust the torsion bars to achieve the desired amount of lift.

If you don't go the full 50mm of lift, you will have even more extension travel than me, but I'm really happy with mine and highly recommend the service and solution I received from www.independent4x.com

I got another upgrade from them also, but I'll cover that in another post.

Craig


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cnut

Member
Hey Mike,

It's pretty simple really, the first letter of my first name then the first three letters of my surname.

Why do you ask?
Are you dyslexic? Hahahahaha

Craig


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cnut;348970It's pretty simple really said:
In that case... I apologise for considering you to be anything less
than open and honest.

Unfortunately, in recent times, and in consideration of a very large
banner which adorned the Melbourne skyline and proclaimed the
word "FCUK" to be something we should admire I have become
rather sensitive to these things.

Now, I'm not above saying "F**k" but I do not believe it should be
part of our daily language either.

MH
 

camperman2010

New Member
Gday Cnut, got a question for you, ive been thinking of the BJ Flip my self, but doesnt that increase the angle of the CV Sharfts, yes i know that will happen with the Torsion wind up, but im just worried about the extra angle from the spacers,maybe a front diff drop would be in order to bring the cv's more inline.
 

cnut

Member
Hey camperman,

The increase angle on cv shafts will be the identical using either the crank or the flip or the flip and spacer methods.

Overall lift is what affects the angle on the shafts.

What the flip does is to give you back some of your down travel which you lost by lifting.

What the flip and spacer does is to give you back better than original down travel, it doesn't affect shaft angle any more or less than either of the other methods.

Hmmmm, now I'm thinking about the geometry of that and while it has no affect on the angles at static position, by giving back the down travel, then yes....... We have increased the angle at the full extension position.

Personally, I haven't seen or heard any adverse effects from the 2" lift on the CV's and I also have a Lokka on the front so my CV's are potentially loaded a little more than most.

My research on the US Trooper forums suggested that the diff drop wasn't really necessary until you got to a three inch lift and then they are doing a two inch drop.

I'll certainly be keeping CV's in mind and will update this thread if any problem develop, but for now, I'm pretty happy with my setup.

Just got back from 2 weeks on Moreton Island, the Jack went everywhere I pointed it and didn't get stuck once, which was not the case for a lot of other vehicles, it's pretty soft over there at the moment.


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muc the truck

Well-Known Member
Hey camperman,

The increase angle on cv shafts will be the identical using either the crank or the flip or the flip and spacer methods.

Overall lift is what affects the angle on the shafts.

What the flip does is to give you back some of your down travel which you lost by lifting.

What the flip and spacer does is to give you back better than original down travel, it doesn't affect shaft angle any more or less than either of the other methods.

Hmmmm, now I'm thinking about the geometry of that and while it has no affect on the angles at static position, by giving back the down travel, then yes....... We have increased the angle at the full extension position.

Personally, I haven't seen or heard any adverse effects from the 2" lift on the CV's and I also have a Lokka on the front so my CV's are potentially loaded a little more than most.

My research on the US Trooper forums suggested that the diff drop wasn't really necessary until you got to a three inch lift and then they are doing a two inch drop.

I'll certainly be keeping CV's in mind and will update this thread if any problem develop, but for now, I'm pretty happy with my setup.

Just got back from 2 weeks on Moreton Island, the Jack went everywhere I pointed it and didn't get stuck once, which was not the case for a lot of other vehicles, it's pretty soft over there at the moment.


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while using the lower bump stop there is extensive strain on the cv while its maintaining contact on the stopper . One just needs to be prepared for the extra cost and damage if you take this path and modify the vehicle . by the way your vehicle is now strictly an unregistered off road recreational vehicle . ball joint spacers and flips are illegal in every single state and territory . I mention this simply so the blind don't follow .


There is hideous out come to this when the hub is stressed in arduous off road . Because the ball joint is no longer caged the large cente round hole it normally fits though the bolts are the only thing holding the ball joint located were as before the center hole did did all the locating just like a hub and a car rim and the bolts simply held it there just like wheel nuts on a car. Bolts have snapped doing this mod and going off road.

as for your locker lockers share load . there is no sudden on of or shock when it hits the ground if a wheel comes off the ground , that's a good thing because you have shared the work . you have more of a danger with a open diff and wound up torsion bars busting a torsion bar simply because the locker should give you the traction required to travel much slower to negotiate the obstacle
 
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camperman2010

New Member
while using the lower bump stop there is extensive strain on the cv while its maintaining contact on the stopper . One just needs to be prepared for the extra cost and damage if you take this path and modify the vehicle . by the way your vehicle is now strictly an unregistered off road recreational vehicle . ball joint spacers and flips are illegal in every single state and territory . I mention this simply so the blind don't follow .


There is hideous out come to this when the hub is stressed in arduous off road . Because the ball joint is no longer caged the large cente round hole it normally fits though the bolts are the only thing holding the ball joint located were as before the center hole did did all the locating just like a hub and a car rim and the bolts simply held it there just like wheel nuts on a car. Bolts have snapped doing this mod and going off road.

as for your locker lockers share load . there is no sudden on of or shock when it hits the ground if a wheel comes off the ground , that's a good thing because you have shared the work . you have more of a danger with a open diff and wound up torsion bars busting a torsion bar simply because the locker should give you the traction required to travel much slower to negotiate the obstacle
Thats what i actually ment about CV Angles, while the wheel is in the air and the down travel, i should of been more clear, brain thinks one thing and fingers type another lol, and also, what happenes when one wheel is inside the wheel arch and the other is hanging down inside a Rutt on an angle ( not all tracks are flat ),( Clough knows about this pmsl ), you turn the wheel,give it some right foot,get tracksion and BANG goes a CV because of the BJ Flip.
I like to drive my 4x4 out of the bush and not be towed out ! :eek: , but yup, it all comes down to the driver in the end,a $60 k truck full of mods is only as good as the driver,and trust me, over the years ive seen it happen time after time, mod failures and driver error go hand in hand.
 

macka17

Member
coil overs.

Just another "flip" to this coin.

Does anybody know, or tried. Fitting a pr of Coil Over shocks to the 2010/11 Dual
D-MAX.

I have the High rise model Torsion bar front. and wondering if it possible.

Would certainly make a difference to cornering and any front load.
IE Bar. Winch. etc etc.
I'm using Ironman Half leaf helpers on rears.
and like my Navara .last really makes a difference when you loading vehicle more than usual. and 10 min's to back off again afterwards.

May be an interesting experiment if room for the radius of coils?.
 

macka17

Member
Sorry Komat.

new here and not sure how to start a new one.

Quick question.
Which has the most horsepower tween the Cat 10 and Komatsu ? same model?.

Clue. There's only 35 of them t'ween 'em. and it pushes harder .

Back on track now.

I don't think, personally. That a flip would be in best interests of the car if you start working it hard.
Not much holding it in alignment with top.
 
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shaun0

Well-Known Member
Cant you get replacement upper control arms for these? That would do the same job without this ball joint mod
 

shaun0

Well-Known Member
No idea but I have black hawk upper control arms doing the job in my landcruiser 100 series IFS but no idea whats available for yours.
 
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