Another CEO bites the dust.

[discomatt]

What else would you buy? dropping that sort of coin on it is lost money but at the same time cheaper than starting again

No idea and that’s the problem, Greadier hasn’t delivered what was promised and has a lot of issues, 300 series but big bucks to buy and fit out, replace with a new defender, expensive, and a full fit out would be required
Keep the D4, replace air suspension, cooling system,all belts and fluids alternator, plastic inlet manifolds and rotary gear knob then cross finger the crank doesn’t modify itself into a 2 piece arrangement

 

[Toyasaurus]

I understood they JLR rectified that in later engines, wouldn`t that solve one problem.
Just replacing the engine, then again you haven`t had any issues with that one.
I have seen a ytube video of a the problem in the V6 and the later fixes I think you could call them.
Wish I could find the link to it.
Do you think you could get the 4.4 TDv8 in your engine bay?

 

[typhoeus]

Re the crank issue, i found this on another forum:

The reason why the cranks split is that some idiot at the factory over stressed it, when straightening it after it had been ground. The culprit was eventually discovered and sacked on the spot!

He had been using 2 & 1/2 times more pressure that he was told to, thinking he was doing LR a favour, rather than binning cranks that needed more than the maximum force recommended to straighten them. He’d been doing it for 6 years

 

[discomatt]

There are a few theory’s on why the crank fails, not enough bearing, to low oil pressure at idle, to long service intervals, bearing failure and poor casting
Who knows, JLR claimed to have fixed it but a few disco 5 have also failed, Ford redesigned the bottom end for the Ranger and other models with the same Lion V 6
If I did end up with a car and dead engine theV8 out of Range Rover would be the first option and the preferred option

 

[Batts88]

Might be time to apply some logic and throw the old book out and do the opposite. There been building cars for a long time so they should be one of the top performing and popular 4wd's on the market.

 

[Albynsw]

No idea and that’s the problem, Greadier hasn’t delivered what was promised and has a lot of issues, 300 series but big bucks to buy and fit out, replace with a new defender, expensive, and a full fit out would be required
Keep the D4, replace air suspension, cooling system,all belts and fluids alternator, plastic inlet manifolds and rotary gear knob then cross finger the crank doesn’t modify itself into a 2 piece arrangement

Yours hasn’t done many K’s , if you did give it a birthday how long would you keep it, another 10 years?

 

[discomatt]

Yours hasn’t done many K’s , if you did give it a birthday how long would you keep it, another 10 years?

Another 10 would be the goal, if I didn’t take it remote it wouldn’t be a issue, just drive it and fix as required but that doesn’t work in the middle of nowhere

 

[LongRoad2Go]

Another 10 would be the goal, if I didn’t take it remote it wouldn’t be a issue, just drive it and fix as required but that doesn’t work in the middle of nowhere

Perhaps take a page out of the Classic vehicle owners book: a so-called 'nut-and-bolt' resto would be better than spending large dollars on a new vehicle because you know exactly what you're up for, particularly with regards to later model complexity making road-side fixes nigh impossible.

 

[Hoyks]

I suppose one of the issues is that traditionally they type of person that bought such a vehicle would forgive some foibles as it came with the territory and it was overall capability they were after.
They were generally pragmatic and practical types, they would accept it being more 'agricultural' and if there was a minor issue, they either fixed it, ignored it or replaced it with something better. A mate of mine had a County and more than a few times we sent him home with a pair of dolphin torchs strapped to the bonnet or a 12V starter pack on the passenger seat (replacing the vehicle batteries), but it always got him home.

Now they are trying to sell the same quality mechanical product with the added complexity of electronics at a marked up price to a demographic that isn't after the agricultural version, they want the refined one that does everything, but for the $$ they are paying aren't going to accept that they may have to spend a day a month 'tinkering'.

Unfortunately the electronic based systems are conducive to someone tinkering with them and are operating in an environment that will reveal any faults pretty quickly (dusty and wet with vibrations and heat cycles) and a CANBUS system is beyond your home mechanic.

Any issue will be a tilt-tray back to the dealer and on social media and its a downward spiral of bad publicity from there.

I'm sure its not an impossible fix, but it would take stopping production, re-designing vehicle systems and starting again (and probably finding a whole new bunch of issues).
Personally, I think the green oval has managed to kill its reputation and coming back will be very difficult when there are now other options. The brand used to represent rugged reliability (yes, expectations were lower back in the day), exploration and adventure, now there is nothing in the range that represents that.

 

[Albynsw]

Another 10 would be the goal, if I didn’t take it remote it wouldn’t be a issue, just drive it and fix as required but that doesn’t work in the middle of nowhere

Do you think that regardless of the mechanical aspects you address in a makeover that you would still be vulnerable with the electronic side and the sensors etc starting to play up ?
You know them better than me but my concern would still be it is a complex vehicle electrically which would only get more temperamental with age. All European vehicles are like that , the Japs are just better at that stuff for going the distance

For comparison you could pick any 10 year old Japanese vehicle with the same K’s as yours and it would be considered in near new type condition and a great buy
The guy who bought my old cruiser which was 10 years old and 360k on it drove it to Cape York the following week
I am not tryout to knock your LR as I know it has been good to you and a nicer vehicle to drive than the alternatives but I would still be thinking long and hard about whether it is a long term ownership option for outback travel

Just my thoughts on the subject, it makes it even harder when you are not in love with what else is on offer

 

[typhoeus]

We need a euro build with jap electrics, but unfortunately basic but very capable 4x4 vehicles are a small market. There is more profit in luxo mall crawlers that get traded every 5 years for a newer model. And every year they tighten safety regs so that basic vehicles dont pass. I was watching youtube vids recently which are suggesting that in certain European countries, they are considering laws which will make repairing vehicles older than a certain amount illegal in order to get rid of them

 

[LongRoad2Go]

I was watching youtube vids recently which are suggesting that in certain European countries, they are considering laws which will make repairing vehicles older than a certain amount illegal in order to get rid of them

Yeah, quite a few people aren't happy with that idea for a variety of economic and environmental reasons. Same with chrome plating. Some suggested sending them to nearby non-EU countries for repair or plating i.e. perhaps a nice little niche market for the UK.

 

[Batts88]

We need a euro build with jap electrics, but unfortunately basic but very capable 4x4 vehicles are a small market. There is more profit in luxo mall crawlers that get traded every 5 years for a newer model. And every year they tighten safety regs so that basic vehicles dont pass. I was watching youtube vids recently which are suggesting that in certain European countries, they are considering laws which will make repairing vehicles older than a certain amount illegal in order to get rid of them

You can understand they are trying to reduce fuel emissions but it's sort of a catch 22 situation. They generate pollution making new cars, there are lots of old vehicle's that are being restored you could use the term recycled which is a greener way of saying these days and fit a modern motor to comply with current emission laws which is also good. So then you have done your part by helping to reduce pollution a bit because a new vehicle doesn't need to be produced to replace it. But what it boils down to is the government is mainly interested in keeping the car industries wheels turning which is understandable it keeps people in jobs etc etc.
Restoring older vehicle's is getting very expensive, sometimes not viable.
I have an old car but I may be over thinking things or trying to look into what might happen in the future as I'm still contemplating what avenue to go down either a V8 which will still pollute but help resale value but I would look at selling it in the future because over time it will eventually not comply and possibly drop in value as things get stricter. Or go electric which should secure the future of the vehicle and then probably keep it and hand it down but converting to electric is too expensive at this stage hopefully it will come down in the next few yrs which would make good sense so we are throwing less rubbish away which is also another important thing.

 

[discomatt]

Do you think that regardless of the mechanical aspects you address in a makeover that you would still be vulnerable with the electronic side and the sensors etc starting to play up ?
You know them better than me but my concern would still be it is a complex vehicle electrically which would only get more temperamental with age. All European vehicles are like that , the Japs are just better at that stuff for going the distance

For comparison you could pick any 10 year old Japanese vehicle with the same K’s as yours and it would be considered in near new type condition and a great buy
The guy who bought my old cruiser which was 10 years old and 360k on it drove it to Cape York the following week
I am not tryout to knock your LR as I know it has been good to you and a nicer vehicle to drive than the alternatives but I would still be thinking long and hard about whether it is a long term ownership option for outback travel

Just my thoughts on the subject, it makes it even harder when you are not in love with what else is on offer

I’m not concerned about the sensors, they are the same as Jap cars, most are Bosch and it has no more electrical wizardry than any other new car, it’s now 11 years old so even Toyota has caught up with most of it.
I’m not interested in buying a brand new car every 5-7 years which is what all manufacturers want and design for so trading will only leave me in the same position down the track regardless
After years of reading LR forums it’s generally not sensors that fail but false information given to the sensors due to sticky or failed components that throw the sensors out of wake and cause cascading issues
There are plenty of Discovery 3 and 4 owners with over 500,000km on them so they are very capable of doing the high mileage
I just don’t want to be left stranded but at the end of the day the money wasted on a new car plus the 50k fitting it out will buy a lot of services and parts replacement plus leave more than enough for flights , hotels, tows and drinks if it does let me down
Plus given the way the automotive industry is going my old 4wd is probably more reliable than any brand new option in the middle of the desert

 

[Albynsw]

I’m not concerned about the sensors, they are the same as Jap cars, most are Bosch and it has no more electrical wizardry than any other new car, it’s now 11 years old so even Toyota has caught up with most of it.
I’m not interested in buying a brand new car every 5-7 years which is what all manufacturers want and design for so trading will only leave me in the same position down the track regardless
After years of reading LR forums it’s generally not sensors that fail but false information given to the sensors due to sticky or failed components that throw the sensors out of wake and cause cascading issues
There are plenty of Discovery 3 and 4 owners with over 500,000km on them so they are very capable of doing the high mileage
I just don’t want to be left stranded but at the end of the day the money wasted on a new car plus the 50k fitting it out will buy a lot of services and parts replacement plus leave more than enough for flights , hotels, tows and drinks if it does let me down
Plus given the way the automotive industry is going my old 4wd is probably more reliable than any brand new option in the middle of the desert

Fair enough, I see the logic in your thinking. The main thing is that you are comfortable with its long term reliability, there is nothing worse than not being confident in your vehicle when on the road

 

[discomatt]

I’ve driven LR’s about 500,000 km over the last 20 years , there is always the thought of reliability in the back of the mind with will this be the trip.
it’s always been unfounded with my experience and bought on by hearsay and stories from a mate of a mate who knows someone
Either that or Toyota worshippers who think they have the only reliable car ever made and absolute reliability is the be all and end all of car ownership, present company excluded
Regardless of brand there is always a risk of break down and I have had more Jap brands break on trips than I have had, although averages of cars on a trip is also more likely to be Asian manufactured
As it stands the D4 is 11 years old and always worked hard and has been faultless, the wife’s 130 is 6 years old, less km never worked hard and has had the auto replaced and is going in next week to have the ABS system looked at because nothing is working and the dash is lit up like a Christmas tree

 

[Albynsw]

Matt, I appreciate that you have had a good run which is great but there is no Toyota conspiracy going on.
You can’t deny the statistics are not in your favour. Doesn’t matter what or who does the statistics the LR badge always is at the lower end of the reliability score for consecetive years, even LR management acknowledges it.

Hopefully you continue to have a trouble free experience

 

[discomatt]

Never a truer statement