Waeco CF-50 and RAPS 36

yoot

yoot

New Member
Darby,

You can charge the raps at the same time as using it. You will have to purchase a 3 stage charger to charge it off 240v source. It does come with a 12v charge cable but it's next to useless as it only charges at about 4ah which is too slow.

The raps can accept up tp 14.4a charge rate from a 3stage charger.

Hope this helps.
 
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darb

Well-Known Member
thanks Yoot'n'Toot

I have a 3 stage 6amp "pulse technology" charger from supercheap auto which oughta do I hope (has a lead acid mode + calcium/sealed/gel mode).

That'll be my plan ... fridge always 'running' off the RAPS36 (as a buffer), with charger plugged into the terminals on the RAPS36 ... so all day long it'll be basically float charging ... and when gennys / 240 isnt available, the battery will do it's job. ... topping back up when genny comes back online.

nothing flawed in my logic? The Charge rate ought to be greater than the draw rate? (else I'd plug the CF-50 direct into generator power.)

the reasoning is : camping, our gens go on and off sporadically depending on whos around and whos managing it ... we tend to be out on boats quite a bit skiing or fishing ... so if someone switches off the genny through the day and I'm not around to notice, my fridge would go warm.
 
yoot

yoot

New Member
You should get 2 days out of the RAPS anyway, I uses to use one (two actually) and I could get 2.5 days when kept in the shade, your beer won't go warm.

The charger should reduce any surging etc from the genny going on and offline.
 
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darb

Well-Known Member
oh and was surprised how little the fridge acftually draws! ... albeit it wasnt hot weather.

+1 is very happy :) .. which means I am very well fed.
 
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tonydav

New Member
yoot said:
Darby,

You can charge the raps at the same time as using it. You will have to purchase a 3 stage charger to charge it off 240v source. It does come with a 12v charge cable but it's next to useless as it only charges at about 4ah which is too slow.

The raps can accept up tp 14.4a charge rate from a 3stage charger.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Yoot,

I'm interested in your comment that the RAPS can only accept a charge via the 12v cable at 4A. I hadn't heard this and AFAIK nothing about it on the Waeco site, but it does match my experience.

I've found plugging the RAPS36 battery into the RAPS-12 unit, and then the Waeco (50L) into the battery, the battery seems to go flat over time if run at a high rate. I think the 50L draws at 5A which would make sense - i.e. discharging when running, charging when not running.

So my question is, is there a better way of hooking it to the RAPS-12 than via the 12V cable?

Put another way, how do other people run this setup?

I have:
* Waeco 50L
* RAPS-12 connected to the battery as per Waeco docs
* RAPS36 battery

Normally the Waeco isn't used, so I was just running it into the Hella plug and had the battery plugged into the other plug. Running with engine on only and at about 4 "lights" on the fridge kept it cold and no draw on the battery.

But the battery takes ages to charge, tops out at 12.8-13V and when running the fridge off the battery it goes flat. So not how I should be running it....

Thanks for any help.
tony
 
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darb

Well-Known Member
The RAPS 12 is just a wiring harness isnt it?

Removing that from the situ (I dont have one personally) ... I have now had 1 trip with my RAPS36 and CF-50

I didn't actually try a long term charge off the car, aswell as running the fridge.

At camp : I just use a 3 stage 6 amp pulse & float charger ... and had that connected to the RAPS36 permanently ... and fridge into the RAPS (as others had said) ... charges whenever 240v was available. Never had much issue, rarely dropped below 12.8v ... and battery would top out at about 13.8v then float.

The local knowledge I got off a few others (close to WAECO, but dont work for waeco), inline with yoots advice, was that the builtin charger in the RAPS36 (which accepts current from the car) will not charge aswell or as high, or anywhere near as quickly as a proper charger ... but if you have no other options then it'd get you through as best it could.

I'd suggest when you have car power available, run your fridge directly, and let the RAPS36 charge independantly ... or is the RAPS12 supposed to "manage" that for you anyway?

But then my car is not my primary charge or power source ... as it is with you.

maybe, if the builtin charging system of the RAPS isn't great ... then could be possible to get a proper external 240v battery charger, which plugs into an inverter, which plugs back into your 12v car system. Not sure if thats a travesty in the sparky world (12v > 240v > 12v) or not ... but it's the only way I can think of to "properly" charge your RAPS36?
 
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tonydav

New Member
It's not really practical to charge the battery via the battery charger. Ideally I want to leave it in the back of the bus with the Waeco and connect when needed.

Of bigger concern to me is that if it will only charge via the car charger at 4A, and the Waeco draws 5A it will eventually go flat. I think I'll have to raise this with Waeco unless someone has another suggestion of how to run it in the car?

Also looks like the RAPS-12 has crapped itself as when i plug in the fridge it just starts clicking. Works for the battery but I think this is because of the lower draw.

tony
 
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darb

Well-Known Member
Yeah tony, i can see your point, the RAPS36 should be at least able to "maintain" itself when plugged in to car, and under laod from the fridge.

I'd think though that the fridge shouldnt be drawing 5 full amps all the time though? UNless its onl super freeze constantly?

So whilst youre "losing charge" when it is running, it should again win and gain charge when the fridge compressor is idling.

I run mine at about 2 or 3c, on say a 32degree camping trip (in the shade) ... and it kicks in maybe 30% of the day ... the rest of the day its idle and not drawing. At night it barely kicks in at all. At the start of a trip the fridge will drop to bloody -5 anyway as I've put a bunch of frozen meats in! :) (compressor won't even run)

My RAPS36 very rarely ever went off "fully charged" 13.7v ... even with fridge sucking 5amps, battery charged, and the 6amp charger running in float mode ... it'd never tap into the battery.

Agreed though mate, the 4amp and generally "slow" charge rate of the RAPS36 builtin charge system is less than ideal. Perhaps try and chase the issue with Waeco? They may say what you're doing is not what RAPS36 is intended for, i.e paralell and long term inline use.

I have the RAPS36 so I can run independantly of the car altogether (and take charge from 240volt which is intermittently available)

If i was running solely off a car, I'd probably not have a RAPS at all ... and go dual batts.

Bottom line : the charging system builtin to the RAPS36 is not great other than a bit of topup. I'd think of the builtin charger as non existant, and address your charging considerations in lieu of that. I'm sure it cant be too hard to find a decent 6amp charger, that can run off 12v input ... so you can get proper oompf from your alternator & car batteries, into the RAPS. (but again, if you already have dual batts ... id remove the RAPS from equation altogether.).

my 6amp pulse & float charger (AGM/Gel compatible) cost about 70 bucks from supercheat auto ... cheapy, but works, and won't screw the battery, and will charge faster than I can draw.

12 Volt Battery Chargers some of this might help?

Thjis place has cool stuff : The 12 Volt Shop

Im no sparky!
 
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tonydav

New Member
Spoke to Waeco this afternoon and found some info out:

The RAPS-12 unit is definitely faulty. As expected it was tripping a relay so needs replacing.

The RAPS36 (why do they call everything "RAPS"?) only charges around 1.5 to 2A off the plug-in socket, hence my issue with it going flat. I understand what you meant about it not running all the time, but it's still charging and discharging the battery.

They sell a 12V battery charger (basically an uplifting regulator) that you attach to the terminal posts. This will charge at around 8A or so - a much better system. This costs $89 so will probably get one of these unless there's something better on the 12V site you sent me.

I'd really like a dual-battery system but this all goes in a Kia Grand Carnival (am I allowed to admit that on a 4WD site :)) and there is no way a second battery (even a AA one!) would fit under the hood, so would need to be in a battery box in the back which sort of defeats the whole exercise.

I really only use the Waeco when shopping (as it's 1/2 hr or so from where I buy meat) and of course a party. So the battery is only connected if I have something that I don't want to risk warming up. Other times I have water and other drinks (i.e. beer) in the Waeco and run it on about 4 or 5 during travel and off when at work. With the insulating cover on it it's still cool and doesn't freeze in my daily trips of 1/2hr to drop the kids off or an hour to work.
 
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darb

Well-Known Member
Yeah interesting to know mate! Basically what theyre saying is that unless you live in antarctica ... youre never going to be able to charge the RAPS36 faster than the CF-50 can draw it... if using the onboard charging.

Not an issue for me, but annoying all the same!
 
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darb

Well-Known Member
btw, i think you will find that if you charge your RAPS36 with a proper charger, you will get some pretty decent hours out of it mate

I get around 2days out of mine solid ...without any topping up ... and thats only down to like 12.4 volts I think.

Bear in mind the deeper you discharge it, the shorter its life will be...
 
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tonydav

New Member
darb said:
Yeah interesting to know mate! Basically what theyre saying is that unless you live in antarctica ... youre never going to be able to charge the RAPS36 faster than the CF-50 can draw it... if using the onboard charging.

Not an issue for me, but annoying all the same!
Click to expand...

Exactly. Personally I think it's something they should advise in the specs, not after when you ring to complain!

More annoying having the RAPS-12 fail at the moment. Can't even run the Waeco in the car without it. Stupid Kia rear socket is on all the time and it doesn't have enough voltage to run the fridge when the engine's off (only just enought with the engine on!). Does have enough for the Waeco to keep trying and eventually send the battery flat:(. Hopefully a quick replacement.

btw, i think you will find that if you charge your RAPS36 with a proper charger, you will get some pretty decent hours out of it mate

I get around 2days out of mine solid ...without any topping up ... and thats only down to like 12.4 volts I think.

Bear in mind the deeper you discharge it, the shorter its life will be...
Click to expand...

That's what I was expecting. But as it only charges to 12.8V in the car and then this issue, was lucky to get 12 hours to date.

Also important to get everything icy cold before hooking in of course. I can't remember what I had in their when I last tried running off the battery. Might have been hot to start with.

tony
 
yoot

yoot

New Member
Tonydav,

I was advised by another forum member on another forum that in the Subaru Forester (where I had mine) the rear accessory outlet was 120w (or 10A max). But the size of the wires that lead to this plug meant that you did get some measurable voltage drop. This was enough to lower the maximum charge rate that the battery would accept.

I was told it was around the 4A mark, but i wouldn't be surprised if this changed depending on car/alternator/battery charge conditions.

I too was annoyed at Waeco for not making it clear that it will take a LONG time to charge using the built in charger. And by the sounds of things I am glad I sold my RAPS-12 which came free with the fridge as it doesn't sound like that helped in anyway.

The best option to take so you don't waste too much money would be to get your hands on a 12v DC-DC charger, but these cost around $350+. If you connect this to your battery via the terminals on top you can charge the battery up to 14.4A. This would mean a recharge time of 2hours and it would be a proper 2-stage charge to 100% (not 80% like the alternator does).

However you add the $250 (usually $350 though) Battery to the $350 charger and you could very easily just get a 100-120AH AGM battery and box/isolator and strap that to your boot with a 40A charge kit.

I took this route simply because I was able to sell both my RAPS36 on ebay for the same average cost they were to buy, so i didn't lose any money. Thus I could justify reinvesting the $500 into a $700 portable dual battery system.

I recently took this new 120AH system to Fraser in the Patrol and I ran two flouros off it for 5 hours a night and the 60L Fridge. The lowest i saw the battery go after 18 hours was 12.7v (started in 13v). After a 30min drive this was back to 13v. Much better system.
 
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tonydav

New Member
Yoot,

That's the way I'd like to go and is basically what I had in my ute some years ago. But with the Kia I'm not sure it's practical as there's not room under the bonnet for the battery meaning you need to put it in the boot. We're regularly putting up/taking down the third row of seats meaning it would need to be able to be removed when doing so. It would really need to be the same as the Waeco, i.e. a plug in type of thing. But given I'll now have to buy a DC-DC charger (at least only $89) I wonder if I could have just put a deep cycle battery in a box with hella output and handle.....

Also, I'm still not sure how well it's working, or if it's working properly.

Took a trip yesterday and had to put the Waeco on the battery. Had previously charged it via the 8A charger at home so was fully charged. Running with 3 lights on (about 2 degrees) the battery is showing 12.2V after roughly 4 hours.

It did look like the Waeco was running pretty hard. Don't really know why as it's in the bag and it wasn't that hot. But I didn't see it in the compressor off mode with the yellow light on. Maybe I should have only run it on 2 lights? Need to get a fridge thermometer to monitor the actual temperature the fridge is getting to.

But even if the Waeco was running non-stop for 4 hours, should the battery have gone from 13.8V to 12.2V?

I'm somewhat interested in your system though. What components do you have and what did they cost?

Edit: Just saw this item: Sounds interesting:



Only 70ah but I'm sure that would suffice for what I want it for.
tony
 
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yoot

yoot

New Member
tonydav said:
Yoot,


I'm somewhat interested in your system though. What components do you have and what did they cost?

Edit: Just saw this item: Sounds interesting:




tony
Click to expand...

I bought one of these (too lazy to make my own) FLYER MK3

I could have mounted an underbonnet battery but two things stopped me. One was that the spare battery sits next to the turbo. This is stupid. And secondly the only battery worth using in this environment is a Trojan, which was much dearer in wet cell form than an quality AGM.

Secondly you can safely discharge an AGM to 20% capacity, it will shorten its life but nothing like a wet cell which will suffer damage below 50%.

Thirdly AGM don't like heat so under bonnet was no go

Fourth - by the time you added battery, tray, isloator and HD plugs to the rear the over all cost is much the same, and I can't take it out and use it in the Forester or but it in the tent etc.

Downside is it weighs 33kgs.
 
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tonydav

New Member
That flyer looks pretty good, was wondering why you'd have gone with the one I mentioned. Then saw the bit about no battery. Factor in the cost of that and it all goes up dramatically in price.

I've asked for some specs on the 12V-12V charger in the kit I mentioned. Unfortunately freight is $50 unless I want to travel to Ballina! (Mind you a weekend there would be really nice this time of year....)

Still waiting for the RAPS12 back from Waeco. Basically can't use the Waeco in the car without it. Hopefully it'll be a once only failure!

tony
 
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