Victoria will follow South Australia with a per-kilometre usage fee for pure electric and plug-in hybrid cars.

4x4 Earth Black Friday Sale

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
I reckon that's probably a fair figure given that the excise on fuel equates to something like 4-5 cents per kilometre.
Now wait for the self entitled to start complaining.
 

Toyasaurus

Member
I was talking to my cousin in the UK last night and he tells me that,
Boris has outlaid his plan to ban all fuel powered cars, only electric or hybrids will be allowed after 2030 in London.
 

shanegtr

Well-Known Member
It was bound to happen at some point, although I wouldn't have guessed so soon - the % of full electric and plug in hybrid cars would be bugger all. To me the more logical thing to do would be drop fuel excise and have a blanket tax per km on all cars -one system for all then
 

Les PK Ranger

4x4 Earth Contributer
the more logical thing to do would be drop fuel excise and have a blanket tax per km on all cars -one system for all then
Yep, drop rego completely (majority of annual is CTP anyway) and more or less user pays for roads maintenance.

Will take a few years to work out the actual fair end c/km and apply a fair figure for road users.
(Something tells me any changes will see motorists shafted yet again, but it's a nice idea.)

Electric owners can get their recompense from lack of scheduled servicing, lower running cost.

GOVCO did the backflip on LPG not too many years ago (although it might be a decade or more by now ?) with excise of that fuel.
I suppose if they are serious about going (so called) green, they should give big incentives to use new tech more.
IT probably shows how close new tech is to new ICE, new fossil fuel cars are pretty efficient as it is now.
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
I was talking to my cousin in the UK last night and he tells me that,
Boris has outlaid his plan to ban all fuel powered cars, only electric or hybrids will be allowed after 2030 in London.
I heard that sales of liquid powered vehicles will be banned from 2030 across Britain (not sure what's happening in the rest of the UK) - I suppose that if they come up with hydrogen technology that might be allowed?
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
GOVCO did the backflip on LPG not too many years ago (although it might be a decade or more by now ?) with excise of that fuel.
I was shocked in the Pilbara - up there LPG costs more than petrol or diesel. I would assume due to the transport and handling costs, but you'd be ticked off if you'd gone the LPG route...
 

Les PK Ranger

4x4 Earth Contributer
I was shocked in the Pilbara - up there LPG costs more than petrol or diesel. I would assume due to the transport and handling costs, but you'd be ticked off if you'd gone the LPG route...
Volumes I guess, if 2% or even 5% of the population travelling remote on LPG / ULP, then the premium to get it in, delivery, storage etc, make it very cost prohibitive.
Outback . . . diesel is king for numerous reasons (I know that you'd be well aware of this).
Stopped at quite a few places when really remote where diesel was it, no ULP and certainly LPG options.

It'll be a long time before we see any electric charging at places like Birdsville, Mt Dare, and certainly with range limitations in the middle of a place like the Simpson (which I don't really think is remote any longer).

Then again, never say never . . . remember this ?

IMG_1311.JPG IMG_1311.JPG

I remember your 4 adult camping load, Dave you were a legend getting that up this dune and across there unscathed :)
 

Attachments

Toyasaurus

Member
I find it very strange that lpg is so expensive there, considering Karratha gas plant and Pluto lng are less than 25ks away.
KGP produces a crap load of the stuff.
 

shanegtr

Well-Known Member
I find it very strange that lpg is so expensive there, considering Karratha gas plant and Pluto lng are less than 25ks away.
KGP produces a crap load of the stuff.
Yep, and its all piped to Perth and then trucked back. You want gas hot water in Karratha your using 45kg cylinders
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
I find it very strange that lpg is so expensive there, considering Karratha gas plant and Pluto lng are less than 25ks away.
KGP produces a crap load of the stuff.
Yep, and its all piped to Perth and then trucked back. You want gas hot water in Karratha your using 45kg cylinders
The thing is that what is produced at the LNG plants is Liquefied Natural Gas - stuff that is pumped out of the ground, cooled and compressed and then shipped off. CNG is the same as LNG, it just occupies more space as it is not liquefied. It is largely methane.
LPG (which is what we are talking about) is Liquefied Petroleum Gas - stuff that is a byproduct of the refining of oil, compressed and then shipped. It is largely propane and/or butane.
Stuff that runs on LPG won't necessarily run on LNG and vice versa.

LPG fuel, or liquefied petroleum gas, is a liquefied gas and is a byproduct derived while extracting crude petroleum. LPG weighs twice as much as air and is colorless, odorless and is a highly flammable explosive gas. It is comprised of propane mixed with butane, traces of propylene and butylene.
LNG fuel, or liquefied natural gas, is a natural gas converted to liquid form through liquefaction. During this process, natural gas is cooled at low temperatures until it turns into a liquid, and the volume of gas is reduced by approximately 600 times.

CNG and LPG fuel also have both similarities and differences. While CNG is comprised of methane, LPG is comprised of propane and butane. CNG is typically used as a substitute for gasoline in automobiles, while LPG is often used in the industrial, refrigeration, agricultural and catering industries. It is also used to power cooking and heating in homes, and like CNG, can be used as automobile fuel.

CNG releases less greenhouse gas, while LPG releases carbon dioxide, but is still cleaner than gasoline. In the case of a spill, CNG quickly dissipates, whereas LPG will settle on the ground. In general, CNG is considered safer than LPG, since LPG is difficult to disperse.

That's why LPG has to be shipped in...
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
Volumes I guess, if 2% or even 5% of the population travelling remote on LPG / ULP, then the premium to get it in, delivery, storage etc, make it very cost prohibitive.
Outback . . . diesel is king for numerous reasons (I know that you'd be well aware of this).
Stopped at quite a few places when really remote where diesel was it, no ULP and certainly LPG options.

It'll be a long time before we see any electric charging at places like Birdsville, Mt Dare, and certainly with range limitations in the middle of a place like the Simpson (which I don't really think is remote any longer).

Then again, never say never . . . remember this ?

View attachment 70102 View attachment 70102

I remember your 4 adult camping load, Dave you were a legend getting that up this dune and across there unscathed :)
Fond memories there Les.
And Maj the Paj surprised a lot of people that trip - she never missed a beat and never had to be retrieved. Truly a testament to how good the Pajero is as a serious 4WD. We miss Maj...

There's a photo somewhere of me standing on Maj's roof rack, sticking a 4X4 Earth sticker to the underside of the big M sign - I wonder if the sticker is still on there at Mungerannie?
 

Les PK Ranger

4x4 Earth Contributer
There's a photo somewhere of me standing on Maj's roof rack, sticking a 4X4 Earth sticker to the underside of the big M sign - I wonder if the sticker is still on there at Mungerannie?
Good question, clearly visible in that photo (we stuck quite a few of them up in appropriate places.
Maybe an Earther going through can take a look.
 

Toyasaurus

Member
KGP used to fill 9-13 tankers a year of lpg, like condensate it used to help pay for the up keep of the place.
Condensate is refined into jet fuel.

Unlike coal seam gas the stuff that comes into those plants is, Methane, butane, propane, condensate, CO2, nitrogen, mercury and a few other things.
CSG is 98% or there about`s Methane. the rest is CO2, Nitrogen, mercury, and water.
Thats why the plants on Curtis island are very simple compared to the ones on the west coast and Darwin.
Methane is one of the highest green house gases known, after it`s burnt it`s one of the cleanest.
 

typhoeus

Well-Known Member
KGP used to fill 9-13 tankers a year of lpg, like condensate it used to help pay for the up keep of the place.
Condensate is refined into jet fuel.

Unlike coal seam gas the stuff that comes into those plants is, Methane, butane, propane, condensate, CO2, nitrogen, mercury and a few other things.
CSG is 98% or there about`s Methane. the rest is CO2, Nitrogen, mercury, and water.
Thats why the plants on Curtis island are very simple compared to the ones on the west coast and Darwin.
Methane is one of the highest green house gases known, after it`s burnt it`s one of the cleanest.
They refine the mercury out. ? . . I hope!
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
Just another government balls up, most other free thinking and advanced countries pay bonuses and give free charging stations to encourage people to make the switch, no not here, we have a retarded government at all levels.
And don't start with the its no good for remote long distance travel BS, do some research and find out how many km and where the average driver goes and don't fous on a very small % of the population and what that small % do a small % of the time
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
Just another government balls up, most other free thinking and advanced countries pay bonuses and give free charging stations to encourage people to make the switch, no not here, we have a retarded government at all levels.
And don't start with the its no good for remote long distance travel BS, do some research and find out how many km and where the average driver goes and don't fous on a very small % of the population and what that small % do a small % of the time
The problem is Matt, that, speaking personally, we don't have the money, space or facilities to own two vehicles - a long distance/tow the van vehicle and an around the town electric vehicle.
So, we really have no choice but to own the single vehicle that can do everything we need - which then means we are subsidising the people who can afford an electric vehicle as they don't pay any road usage charges.

And now you're asking that I also subsidise their vehicle and their "fuel" (charging stations) as well? While I continue to pay full fare for everything. That's a bit unfair don't you think?
 
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