Total noob, help me pick a off road vehicle

cam04

Well-Known Member
This is what 190kw and 600nm does :D

wow - exactly the same time to 100 as the wife's garden variety NA 2.5 forester - that's what weight does :)

BTW I have a forester and a Ranger - If I'm going somewhere and I don't absolutely need the capability (load/tow/hard 4wd) of the Ranger, I'm taking the forester every time. Half the fuel, twice the performance and comfort, and fine for the sort of off piste excursion you are talking about. Not to mention a huge back seat area. Same payload as most 4wd wagons (648 kg!) as well. You need to define what you want to do with your car first, then buy appropriately. Every single one of them is a compromise.
 
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megamung

Active Member
I probably can compromise on the space, at the end of the day any serious long term camping will require a trailer of some sort to be able to carry everything an entire family needs. My only issues as I've just replied to another post is the questions around the DPF.

yeah I understand the concern, there has been plenty of bad press and of course a class action. the stuff I have read say that there are hundreds of disgruntled owners who have had DPF issues but when you combine Prado, Hilux and Fortuner how many thousands have they sold in 5 years. I don't really like to buy cars and try not to have to do it very often, I had my Nissan for 8years and 180 000 K's and the main reasons for upgrading were the wife not wanting to go for long drives in it and it was at the stage that I would have to start investing on some major repairs and replacements if I was going to keep it on the road for another few years. in 2012 when I was looking for a ute there was plenty of bad press on the D40s , every second guy on the internet had a mate who had blown 3 clutches in 3 years or was on their 2nd timing chain. I was told to stay away from Nissans as they were cheaply made and if I bought one I would be in for a world of hurt. I did my research, drove all the utes and my favourites to drive were the new ranger which had recently been released the Hilux and then to my surprise the d40. Price wise the Nissan had the others beat for value so I spoke to a few owners, researched the details of the problems and found, which is often the case most problems had been rectified by 2012. I had 8 fun and problem free years with it. no regrets.
So in January when I was looking I had pretty much written off the Toyota early for the DPF concerns but after driving all the ute based wagons and discussing potential deals, Fortuner came up trumps for several reasons, the main two being value for money and the way it drove. I did some research and I have several mates and acquaintances who have Toyotas with the 1GD and discovered that most of the issues are with the early models and have pretty much been rectified. I have had mine for just on 7 months and 15000 Ks and I know that is still early days but it has been faultless and I have never used the manual burn. Its not perfect and I preferred the Everest when I was shopping around but the best price I could get on a base 4wd ford was 10k more than I picked up my Toyota for.
Fingers crossed I have made the right choice for me , but I guess the point of this now long winded post is don't let all the hyperbole and bull get in the way when you are weighing up your options there is plenty of bad press on any of the brands , look at what the Jeep and land rover guys have to put up with.

my old girl, loved that rig.
IMG_4816.JPG
 

aleks001

New Member
yeah I understand the concern, there has been plenty of bad press and of course a class action. the stuff I have read say that there are hundreds of disgruntled owners who have had DPF issues but when you combine Prado, Hilux and Fortuner how many thousands have they sold in 5 years. I don't really like to buy cars and try not to have to do it very often, I had my Nissan for 8years and 180 000 K's and the main reasons for upgrading were the wife not wanting to go for long drives in it and it was at the stage that I would have to start investing on some major repairs and replacements if I was going to keep it on the road for another few years. in 2012 when I was looking for a ute there was plenty of bad press on the D40s , every second guy on the internet had a mate who had blown 3 clutches in 3 years or was on their 2nd timing chain. I was told to stay away from Nissans as they were cheaply made and if I bought one I would be in for a world of hurt. I did my research, drove all the utes and my favourites to drive were the new ranger which had recently been released the Hilux and then to my surprise the d40. Price wise the Nissan had the others beat for value so I spoke to a few owners, researched the details of the problems and found, which is often the case most problems had been rectified by 2012. I had 8 fun and problem free years with it. no regrets.
So in January when I was looking I had pretty much written off the Toyota early for the DPF concerns but after driving all the ute based wagons and discussing potential deals, Fortuner came up trumps for several reasons, the main two being value for money and the way it drove. I did some research and I have several mates and acquaintances who have Toyotas with the 1GD and discovered that most of the issues are with the early models and have pretty much been rectified. I have had mine for just on 7 months and 15000 Ks and I know that is still early days but it has been faultless and I have never used the manual burn. Its not perfect and I preferred the Everest when I was shopping around but the best price I could get on a base 4wd ford was 10k more than I picked up my Toyota for.
Fingers crossed I have made the right choice for me , but I guess the point of this now long winded post is don't let all the hyperbole and bull get in the way when you are weighing up your options there is plenty of bad press on any of the brands , look at what the Jeep and land rover guys have to put up with.

my old girl, loved that rig.
View attachment 69112

Yeah look I get it, anything can have issues at the end of the day, nothing will be a 100% guarantee, it just annoyed me greatly the way Toyota went about the issue and the vagueness of their answers on whether they have really fixed it or not. I have two friends who bought a D40 at the same time from the same dealership. One of them didn't have a single issue with his, the other one had never ending issues and swore he will never buy another one. So it just shows how sketchy cars can be. I'll definitely test drive the Hilux when I go and compare vehicles, I actually wonder if the DPF manual burn button will make it across to the face lift. They seem to have redesigned the engine quite a bit so it will be interesting, there's also a raft of suspension changes to make it more complaint on road and more capable off road as well so it's looking really promising. A friend at my work place did actually have his DPF clog and exhaust smoke, Toyota did rectify it for him though, but he wasn't to happy considering he paid $60K+Accessories for it.
 

cam04

Well-Known Member
Yeah look I get it, anything can have issues at the end of the day, nothing will be a 100% guarantee, it just annoyed me greatly the way Toyota went about the issue and the vagueness of their answers on whether they have really fixed it or not. I have two friends who bought a D40 at the same time from the same dealership. One of them didn't have a single issue with his, the other one had never ending issues and swore he will never buy another one. So it just shows how sketchy cars can be. I'll definitely test drive the Hilux when I go and compare vehicles, I actually wonder if the DPF manual burn button will make it across to the face lift. They seem to have redesigned the engine quite a bit so it will be interesting, there's also a raft of suspension changes to make it more complaint on road and more capable off road as well so it's looking really promising. A friend at my work place did actually have his DPF clog and exhaust smoke, Toyota did rectify it for him though, but he wasn't to happy considering he paid $60K+Accessories for it.
Unfortunately for your friend, "rectifying" a hilux DPF means a forced regen or a full replacement by the dealer. Then all it does is delay the symptoms recurring and never actually fixes the problem. The 2015/16 are the worst of them, gradually improving after that. The 19/20 facelift hilux is already a big improvement in the steering/handling department, the SR's and up got the radar cruise/lane keep/AEB etc. The update should be better again - hopefully. If interiors and wank factor aren't a great concern, the value models are the XL in the fords, SR's in the hilux etc etc. They have all the important tech of the higher spec models with a hose out interior and are $10K plus cheaper than the mall cruiser versions which buys a whole lot of the important stuff that either model needs to bring up to touring spec . If you need to jump soon, the runout BT50 is the ute I'd be buying for the best bang for buck option right now @ $38k drive away for a decent spec model. The only other thing I'd say about utes V wagons, is you will not get a feel for how a ute rides until it is loaded up properly - then they are actually OK. An empty test drive of a commercial vs a passenger wagon will have the wagon waltzing away. In touring trim the gap isn't as huge as you'd first think. Unless you are buying a Ranger Raptor, wagons will always be more comfy. Raptors are pretty special in the bump handling department compared with anything.
 
Hav
I've found the ranger isnt too bad in the rear leg room department, certainly a hell of a lot better than the hiluxes we have a work. No idea how these two compare to what else is on the market as they are the only 2 I've actually sat in the backseat of (apart from a D22 navara and that was plain torture).

Ive been in the back of a ranger with 2x 6ft+ adults in the front and found there was plenty of leg room, I'm 5'10 car was moderately loaded only the the height of the tub with camping equipment and we were hitting the beach and felt comfortable on the track onto the beach and a graded gravel road travelling at 60kms an hr with standard wheels and tyres (Wildtrack version so I think 18's)
 

aleks001

New Member
Hav


Ive been in the back of a ranger with 2x 6ft+ adults in the front and found there was plenty of leg room, I'm 5'10 car was moderately loaded only the the height of the tub with camping equipment and we were hitting the beach and felt comfortable on the track onto the beach and a graded gravel road travelling at 60kms an hr with standard wheels and tyres (Wildtrack version so I think 18's)

Thank you for that, this is something that's actually extremely important to me beacause im 6ft2 roughly and this means that there are many cars where no one can sit behind me. This is a huge issue for me as this is going to be family vehicle and will regularly need kids and before you know it teenagers behind sitting behind me. So I will definitely need to check the ranger out, any car where a person can not sit behind will be immediately crossed of my list, doesn't matter how capable, reliable or whatever it is.
 

SirDrinksalott

Active Member
@discomatt has me hooked on Disco 4:


I had a first model which I loved, took 7 grown men 9 hours north to the Isle of Skye then loaded all the gear from a following Van for 9 of us to live in a remote lodge for a week whilst 7 walked in, the Disco carried the gear over this:

camasunary-bay-and-sgurr-na-stri-from-am-mam-pass__large.jpg
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
Mate I can show you heaps of 4wding porn where standard Disco 3 and 4 do some pretty hard tracks in totally standard form and other people post videos of there twin locked 4wds on 35's go and comment on what a great track it was.
Land Rover, untill you own and drive one you just don't get it but they will make a mechanic out of anyone...
 

aleks001

New Member
I would happily get the disco but their prices are insane. Your basically looking at close to $50K if not more for a 7 year old car with 100,000KM. I'm happy to wrench myself I'm pretty good on the tools, not much I can't do have worked on lots of modern passenger cars, but at that price I can get a brand new pretty capable vehicle. It just doesn't make sense to buy.
 
I would happily get the disco but their prices are insane. Your basically looking at close to $50K if not more for a 7 year old car with 100,000KM. I'm happy to wrench myself I'm pretty good on the tools, not much I can't do have worked on lots of modern passenger cars, but at that price I can get a brand new pretty capable vehicle. It just doesn't make sense to buy.
When I was a kid we had a Pajero that only got moved on due to excessive rust, it'd done well over 350000kms by that stage, my parents upgrade to a v8 disco and it had nothing but problems. The main issue with LR's is people don't know how to diagnose and fix them properly, in saying that, you'd be safe with taking it to cremorne prestige if you are in Sydney as they know what they are doing hands down (if we'd taken our car there when we owned it the issues would have been fixed straight away) Again plenty of room in the second row of a D3 & D4 as I've sat in them before and very comfy. One challenge you will have with a D4 is finding a 16" wheel to fit over the big brakes meaning you'll have to run 17" wheels and more likely to puncture, there are some 16" wheels that fit just hard to come by. A ranger will probably hold its value better than a disco though if you are concerned about resale in the future and there are plenty of parts available as they are currently the top selling 4x4 Ute in Aus
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
What model V8 Disco 2 I bet, but yep not as reliable generally speaking as a Jap 4wd and you must have a good independent LR workshop and you must do a bit of reading and research on LR forums.
There is a reason the Disco 4 is still so much money at 7 years old, although I am surprised at that price quoted I wouldn't have thought they would still be that much.
Also the info on wheel sizing is totally inaccurate
 

aleks001

New Member
What model V8 Disco 2 I bet, but yep not as reliable generally speaking as a Jap 4wd and you must have a good independent LR workshop and you must do a bit of reading and research on LR forums.
There is a reason the Disco 4 is still so much money at 7 years old, although I am surprised at that price quoted I wouldn't have thought they would still be that much.
Also the info on wheel sizing is totally inaccurate
With european cars it really comes down heavily how good your mechanic is. It will really change your outlook on the cars reliability.

Yeah I was supprised to, I can't believe how much people are asking for them. I was expecting most of them to be in the 30's at best. I wonder if people are actually buying them at the prices listed. That's a big risk to take with those KM for that money when you can literally buy a brand new vehicle for similar money.
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
But you can not compare a brand new Isuzu or base model ute to a high tech 4wd that is way better in every respect.
If you think a Disco 4 is over priced look at a 200 or 70 that is 7 years old and 200,000km
 

aleks001

New Member
But you can not compare a brand new Isuzu or base model ute to a high tech 4wd that is way better in every respect.
If you think a Disco 4 is over priced look at a 200 or 70 that is 7 years old and 200,000km
I get what your saying, I'm just saying what I would do with my money. A new car is a new car at the end of the day and don't worry I'm just as shocked with land cruiser prices.
 

SirDrinksalott

Active Member
Mate I can show you heaps of 4wding porn where standard Disco 3 and 4 do some pretty hard tracks in totally standard form and other people post videos of there twin locked 4wds on 35's go and comment on what a great track it was.
Land Rover, untill you own and drive one you just don't get it but they will make a mechanic out of anyone...

See that photo above, its not mine, I lost the camera I took the pics of my Disco going over that track. About a KM before that spot, the super tough Gabbro Rock of the Cuillins ripped my tyres apart, (I didnt let them down or anything and it was loose stone). The rear passenger side tyre was shredded and hanging off the rim when we stopped to take a photo we noticed it, it could have been like that for a mile or so.

I said to my mate I couldnt feel it had gone and I will be fked if I am changing a wheel on top of this pass, so we drove all the way down to that house on 3 wheels without any problem!

The issue I had with the Disco 1 was the link between the drive shaft and the rear diff. Instead of using a mechanical (u coupling?) it used a rubber disk which compressed on one side. It perished twice in 2 years.

Also the ABS would randomly force your foot off the brake and if it were coming up to a stop at the lights, the hand brake was needed to stop the beast!
 
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