The towing thread
- Thread starter hiluxdriver
- Start date
dno67
Well-Known Member
I imagine your right, but regular inspections by the owner should make sure
it's in good safe condition. Just like people should know there weights and how to safely
load and tow.
That is the whole problem as far as I'm concerned, people with NFI playing a dangerous game on the road.
silkwood
Well-Known Member
Actually, while in St. Helens Caravan Park in Tassie last March I went and spoke to a bloke driving a big Campervan and towing a vehicle behind it. I wanted to learn what it all entails. That is weight, control, safety, etc. etc. so that I may be more informed because I love motoring, always have. Do you know what? The bloke said he could not explain much to me when I asked about the braking system, ability to control, tow and view the vehicle while driving, etc.etc. He just said he hooks it up and it goes well.
How come he does not have to have any competent and legal driving ability to do this?
So I guess there are hundreds of these coming at me on the road when I travel. So much for driving a car with great safety options today. How about we work on a developing a "Driver Safety Options" where everyone has to have a special license to do this stuff.
And by the way, over many years now I have advocated that every human being in Australia, has to have a defensive and advanced driving certificate before they can hold a driver's license. And I go further than that and advocate that every human being in Australia who holds a driving license must sit a driving test every five years. Yep. every five years. It may get rid of a few oldies but I reckon it would get rid of a lot of idiots I see on the road every day.
Defensive, yes, but there is not only no evidence advanced driving courses make anyone safer (including other road users), there have been a number of studies showing advanced driving courses can lead to greater risk taking. Particularly in those aged under 25.
Cheers,
Mark
rogerazz
4x4 Earth Contributer
G'day Mark. As a result of my determination and five articles written in the Herald Sun Motoring Section some years ago, my five kids, all under 25 at the time, including a 16yo, were given defensive/advanced driving courses for free by Driveskill International in Melbourne. My articles were compared to a top German safety Specialist as a very important part of safety for all drivers, especially young people obtaining their first licence.
Fingers crossed, I have also personally done defensive/advanced safety courses and I have been accident free for over fifty five years.
.Five kids out of five and now aged thirty to forty three and still doing ok. Two did their training at Sandown Racetrack and three did their training at Police Training Track in Niddrie.
That's not from research but from personal experience.
My 16 yo at that time.
I was not going to comment on this but after reading and following this I had to.
Firstly apart from knowledge about what you are doing SPEED seems to be a big thing. I can’t underestimate how important this is. You should adjust you speed for the conditions. Just because it’s legal to say go at 100 there may be other considerations, towing for instance, drop your speed accordingly. If wet drop it a lot, this apples to just driving your car also. A road may not be as good as it should be , drop your speed. If going slower than others pull over when safe to, this let’s others go. By the way I am licensed to tow a trailer. I have an unsestricted HR licence which allows me to drive a heavy ridged with a trailer. For many years I did so carting grain in the Central West. Also there are not many real acedents just drivers doing the wrong thing, mostly speeding causing the crash, unfortunately taking an inosant person with them. I know there are other considerations like always checking things like tires and lights etc, but not many people bo this before using a car or truck, this should be second nature. I always do this. So speed is something that should be considered no matter what you are driving, unfortunately not many people do this. This should be a part of a real education push.
Cheers
Rob
Firstly apart from knowledge about what you are doing SPEED seems to be a big thing. I can’t underestimate how important this is. You should adjust you speed for the conditions. Just because it’s legal to say go at 100 there may be other considerations, towing for instance, drop your speed accordingly. If wet drop it a lot, this apples to just driving your car also. A road may not be as good as it should be , drop your speed. If going slower than others pull over when safe to, this let’s others go. By the way I am licensed to tow a trailer. I have an unsestricted HR licence which allows me to drive a heavy ridged with a trailer. For many years I did so carting grain in the Central West. Also there are not many real acedents just drivers doing the wrong thing, mostly speeding causing the crash, unfortunately taking an inosant person with them. I know there are other considerations like always checking things like tires and lights etc, but not many people bo this before using a car or truck, this should be second nature. I always do this. So speed is something that should be considered no matter what you are driving, unfortunately not many people do this. This should be a part of a real education push.
Cheers
Rob
cam04
Well-Known Member
You don't actually believe that? Training makes you a worse driver.
typhoeus
Well-Known Member
I think he means it makes some young drivers cocky and therfore take more risks
rogerazz
4x4 Earth Contributer
My belief is that you have to pass a defensive/advanced driver training course before you get your license. There were two people who I reckoned failed when my kids did their courses. One who was an old lady who was scared to drive even though she drove a new Mercedes Sports with all the safety stuff like braking, traction, stability, etc. The other was a young bloke who struggled to do the course in his modded car and left half way through the course.
These courses are not compulsory and you do not get a pass or fail report. The instructor gives you some idea as to how you went and if further experience/training may be required. You just get a certificate to say you did the course and the young bloke did not get a certificate.
So I reckon everyone should have to do the course and pass to obtain or retain their license. The theory part is also good as well as the driving skills part.
These courses are not compulsory and you do not get a pass or fail report. The instructor gives you some idea as to how you went and if further experience/training may be required. You just get a certificate to say you did the course and the young bloke did not get a certificate
.So I reckon everyone should have to do the course and pass to obtain or retain their license. The theory part is also good as well as the driving skills part.
rogerazz
4x4 Earth Contributer
I totally agree with everything you say.
I tend to agree, however a couple of cocky blokes were put in their place and if it was a compulsory test and I was an instructor I would fail them on that alone.
discomatt
Well-Known Member
Once again some of the things I read here blow my mind...
Some should do some searching on how Germans get their licence and how fast they drive...
Driver training induces more dangerous behaviour??? BS
Speed kills??? BS
Inappropriate speeding kills
Lack of driver training kills
lack of concentration kills
Some should do some searching on how Germans get their licence and how fast they drive...
Driver training induces more dangerous behaviour??? BS
Speed kills??? BS
Inappropriate speeding kills
Lack of driver training kills
lack of concentration kills
silkwood
Well-Known Member
I'll take statistics and relevant studies over your "BS" assertion.
You may note I did not state there is evidence driver training is not useful. SOME driver training has been shown to be detrimental. There is a difference.
Germany has moved to a model (BASIC) based upon standard skills (not on managing control at speed) and attitude. The evidence, both direct and including associated psychological studies suggests this is far more effective in reducing accidents than teaching someone how to control a high speed skid (yes, I am conflating a number of issues into a single example for emphasis) .
Most courses which do include skid control have moved specifically away from teaching control at a speed in excess of safe cornering to teaching how to control a vehicle in unexpected low speed conditions.
Cheers
Mark
You may note I did not state there is evidence driver training is not useful. SOME driver training has been shown to be detrimental. There is a difference.
Germany has moved to a model (BASIC) based upon standard skills (not on managing control at speed) and attitude. The evidence, both direct and including associated psychological studies suggests this is far more effective in reducing accidents than teaching someone how to control a high speed skid (yes, I am conflating a number of issues into a single example for emphasis) .
Most courses which do include skid control have moved specifically away from teaching control at a speed in excess of safe cornering to teaching how to control a vehicle in unexpected low speed conditions.
Cheers
Mark
cam04
Well-Known Member
I think you are talking about models of advanced defensive driving skills which were superceded way back in the 1990's. Nothing I have done in the last 30 years has ever involved speed in excess of anything but safe speeds.
Thanks for mentioning Germany. Where driving instructors go to school full time for 5 months and have refreshers and retests yearly, where testers are engineers, where lay teaching is outlawed - every lesson is with a proper instructor, where lessons include road, motorway cross-country, dawn, dusk training. I have no doubt that it is more intensive than any advanced defensive course I used to get paid to do.
I wish our kids were subjected to that sort of regime here.
Maybe you are talking about track training? Nothing the government has every put me through involved anything faster than posted speed limits.
greysrigging
Well-Known Member
Here is an old scanned newspaper ( yep, I actually made page 2 ) article of my good self....
Now for a bit of background I am also an experienced heavy haulage operator, been running roadtrains for umpteen years....but I managed to wreck my 4Runner towing a trailer at only 40klmhour..... yep I stuffed up.....loaded it wrong that is the weight was distributed incorrectly and that was the 4wd buggered.
Now for a bit of background I am also an experienced heavy haulage operator, been running roadtrains for umpteen years....but I managed to wreck my 4Runner towing a trailer at only 40klmhour..... yep I stuffed up.....loaded it wrong that is the weight was distributed incorrectly and that was the 4wd buggered.
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greysrigging
Well-Known Member
yes I'm trying to see why.... if you double click on the pic it comes up in a new window ?
Swaggie
Moderator
I tried downloading it and renaming it, no go, do you use Photobucket etc...
greysrigging
Well-Known Member
No I just scanned the photocopy of an old newspaper clipping as a jpeg and uploaded as I would a normal photo....I will try different settings on the scanner....
greysrigging
Well-Known Member
OK I cant let it beat me so I have taken a photo of the NT News article re my prang on New Years Eve 1996. 18 and half grand to fix the 4runner ( insurance....) I wanted them to write it off but no....3 months in the panel shop. It was a saga.... lol
So yeah I borrowed this bloody great heavy tandem trailer from the boss at work over the Xmas break . I shoveled a bloody great amount of sand into it, but all at the arse end because I was too lazy to put the sand past the front axle and over the draw bar. Also the trailer had a flat tyre which I was also too lazy to change. So I tootle off home and was only doing 40 klm/h, hit a bit of a bump on the bitumen, got the wobbles up and she flipped me over in less than a heart beat ! I can still see the blackness and broken glass descending on me even now as I type this account. Friggen traumatic I can tell you.... So I'm upside down and the engine is still running...I turn the key off which probably saved the motor from seizing up, and undid my seatbelt then sort of squeezed myself out of the broken and crushed drivers window, The only injuries I suffered was lacerations on my back climbing out the window....few scars there 22 years later.
Atlas crash repairs did a great job an the 4Runner and I kept it until 2010. So yeah, experienced road train and crane operator.... pulled 100 tonnes down the Stuart Highway many times.... but ya know what ? I have never towed a caravan. I find it bizarre that anyone is able to chuck a bloody great caravan behind a 3 tonne 'Cruiser and is deemed competent to tow such a combination all over Australia.
So yeah I borrowed this bloody great heavy tandem trailer from the boss at work over the Xmas break . I shoveled a bloody great amount of sand into it, but all at the arse end because I was too lazy to put the sand past the front axle and over the draw bar. Also the trailer had a flat tyre which I was also too lazy to change. So I tootle off home and was only doing 40 klm/h, hit a bit of a bump on the bitumen, got the wobbles up and she flipped me over in less than a heart beat ! I can still see the blackness and broken glass descending on me even now as I type this account. Friggen traumatic I can tell you.... So I'm upside down and the engine is still running...I turn the key off which probably saved the motor from seizing up, and undid my seatbelt then sort of squeezed myself out of the broken and crushed drivers window, The only injuries I suffered was lacerations on my back climbing out the window....few scars there 22 years later.
Atlas crash repairs did a great job an the 4Runner and I kept it until 2010. So yeah, experienced road train and crane operator.... pulled 100 tonnes down the Stuart Highway many times.... but ya know what ? I have never towed a caravan. I find it bizarre that anyone is able to chuck a bloody great caravan behind a 3 tonne 'Cruiser and is deemed competent to tow such a combination all over Australia.