SouthPAN compatible Phone / Tablet
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Cyberess
Active Member
What do you need a device that is SBAS compatible? I don't believe that there is any phone or tables currently available that does SBAS, although their chips might be able to support it, most devices support GNSS -- GPS accuracy to something like 3 meters -- I believe SBAN will be able to do something like 10cm of accuracy.
It will be interesting if someone else knows something more.
Cheers
It will be interesting if someone else knows something more.
Cheers
Cyberess,
Most iPhones and high-end Android tablets will now support SBAS - QZSS. Which works in a trial phase right across Australia. I've been using that on my Samsung S20 5G FE for about 4 years now and it works well. But it is expected to finish soon now that Southern SPAN is running. In Android, you can go to developer settings and enable "Force full GNSS measurements" mode.
It is nice to have, but especially under trees in the high country, the average error can frequently go up to 10m or more, especially when wet, and the GPX tracks are not aligned accurately at times. It's more of an interest right now and free, but Southspan has been launched and will become pretty standard and accessible over the next year or so.
I'm up for a new phone soon, so I just want to get one with that feature since I will be stuck with it for a few years.
Most iPhones and high-end Android tablets will now support SBAS - QZSS. Which works in a trial phase right across Australia. I've been using that on my Samsung S20 5G FE for about 4 years now and it works well. But it is expected to finish soon now that Southern SPAN is running. In Android, you can go to developer settings and enable "Force full GNSS measurements" mode.
It is nice to have, but especially under trees in the high country, the average error can frequently go up to 10m or more, especially when wet, and the GPX tracks are not aligned accurately at times. It's more of an interest right now and free, but Southspan has been launched and will become pretty standard and accessible over the next year or so.
I'm up for a new phone soon, so I just want to get one with that feature since I will be stuck with it for a few years.
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BeiDou, GPS, GLONASS, Galileo are the 4 types of Sat systems. While most people refer to GPS as a generic term, that's incorrect, and the US system; the others are basically the same but by China, the US, Russia and the EU, respectively. Most phones will use some or all of those, and the number of satellites goes from 10 or so to 30 - 50 overhead. That will all happen automatically. NaviC is the Indian one made by TATA, It will help you get lost with poor accuracy and reliability. 4 of their 9 sats have failed.
The others have about an average of 3 -5 Meter error. With horizontal errors up to 10m or more under tree cover or near buildings etc.
There are now several types of correction systems to improve the accuracy to 10cm or so. Most now are Satellite-Based Augmentation Systems ( SBAS). These will be necessary for driverless cars etc and handy for 4wding / mapping. ( if you have ever driven in the high country surrounded by high leafy trees, and your GPS shows you driving 10m off the track, you've experienced this.)
The ones relevant to Australia are QZSS - a Japanese system that has been orbiting over Australia, but the Australian government set up SouthSPAN, which is coming online now. That uses an additional band that only some devices support right now, hence my original post. I think Japan will move QZSS away from Australia now that they haven't won the contract for the new SBAS.
www.amsa.gov.au
www.ga.gov.au
en.wikipedia.org
If you have an android, the latest version of this app will tell you if your device supports these. I think a few phones and tablets will come out this year. The app is interesting, you can select the types of GNSS that it displays. There are a lot more Chinese ones than US ones over Australia.
The others have about an average of 3 -5 Meter error. With horizontal errors up to 10m or more under tree cover or near buildings etc.
There are now several types of correction systems to improve the accuracy to 10cm or so. Most now are Satellite-Based Augmentation Systems ( SBAS). These will be necessary for driverless cars etc and handy for 4wding / mapping. ( if you have ever driven in the high country surrounded by high leafy trees, and your GPS shows you driving 10m off the track, you've experienced this.)
The ones relevant to Australia are QZSS - a Japanese system that has been orbiting over Australia, but the Australian government set up SouthSPAN, which is coming online now. That uses an additional band that only some devices support right now, hence my original post. I think Japan will move QZSS away from Australia now that they haven't won the contract for the new SBAS.
Satellite-Based Augmentation System (SBAS) | Australian Maritime Safety Authority
A Satellite-Based Augmentation System (SBAS) is now available in the Australia and New Zealand region.
Southern Positioning Augmentation Network (SouthPAN)
The Southern Positioning Augmentation Network (SouthPAN) is a joint initiative of the Australian and New Zealand Governments that provides Satellite-Based Augmentation System (SBAS) services for Australia and New Zealand.
Quasi-Zenith Satellite System - Wikipedia
If you have an android, the latest version of this app will tell you if your device supports these. I think a few phones and tablets will come out this year. The app is interesting, you can select the types of GNSS that it displays. There are a lot more Chinese ones than US ones over Australia.
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Albynsw
Well-Known Member
Is that so I know where I am or so they can find me ?
It seems to me Alby that you just go about your business. The Authorities have no interest in you. The ones that should worry about being spied on are the ones who protest illegally, attack others and break the law to protect their rights. They need to be concerned.
LOL
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Cyberess
Active Member
Hmm we are making people heads sore and we are only just warming up
I already had the GPSTest app installed which is also available from the F-Droid store
Just as a check I walked out to the letterbox here in Darwin and my Pixel 7 pro nailed 49 Satellites just about instantanly, but scrolling down the screen it noted that the SBAS was not available but from the Japan QZSS network I was only picking 6 Satellites, location where you are does matter when making these tests.
Looking at the SBAS docs for Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Positioning_Augmentation_Network and it looks like it's going to be some time before 10cm Southern Positioning Augmentation Network componets will be impellemented.
More Ref: https://www.ga.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/123320/SBAS-STN-0001_02_SDD-OS.pdf
Hmm looks like full operation is going to be late 2028.
Cheers
I already had the GPSTest app installed which is also available from the F-Droid store
Just as a check I walked out to the letterbox here in Darwin and my Pixel 7 pro nailed 49 Satellites just about instantanly, but scrolling down the screen it noted that the SBAS was not available but from the Japan QZSS network I was only picking 6 Satellites, location where you are does matter when making these tests.
Looking at the SBAS docs for Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Positioning_Augmentation_Network and it looks like it's going to be some time before 10cm Southern Positioning Augmentation Network componets will be impellemented.
More Ref: https://www.ga.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/123320/SBAS-STN-0001_02_SDD-OS.pdf
Hmm looks like full operation is going to be late 2028.
Cheers
Your device may not support SBAS, though QZSS is an SBAS. Dunno. I specifically got the S20FE ( most Samsung phones dont) a few years ago because it supported QZSS and works with it. I have a real vs calculated GNSS location error logger and it works well .
True, full operation is in a few years, but it works now if your device supports the right modes of L1 and ( especially) L5 bands. The service is still in trial. There is no guarantee for life affecting services and improved accuracy during the next few years.
But it has been working for some time.
TBH, I was hoping someone had gone down this track before me; sadly, apparently not.
True, full operation is in a few years, but it works now if your device supports the right modes of L1 and ( especially) L5 bands. The service is still in trial. There is no guarantee for life affecting services and improved accuracy during the next few years.
But it has been working for some time.
TBH, I was hoping someone had gone down this track before me; sadly, apparently not.
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The GPS test I have looks nothing like the one you showed a pic of above where you showed the arrow Cyberess.
I have a tab to filter by satellite and it shows the various GNSS, QZSS, SBAS and unknown.
I think they are different GPS test apps. I have another GPS test app which is completely different again ( and shows actual vs calculated position)
This is the one I am using.
play.google.com
I have a tab to filter by satellite and it shows the various GNSS, QZSS, SBAS and unknown.
I think they are different GPS test apps. I have another GPS test app which is completely different again ( and shows actual vs calculated position)
This is the one I am using.
gps test app - Android Apps on Google Play
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Cyberess
Active Member
Wow that ain't the opensource app as from Github https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest please install https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.gpstest that is correct application as for testing SBAS status
I just tried that app that you have mentioned -- it would be difficult to to workout the SBAS status, although it's a nice looking app with some features hiding behind a paywall.
I just tried that app that you have mentioned -- it would be difficult to to workout the SBAS status, although it's a nice looking app with some features hiding behind a paywall.
I've been using it for some time, Cyberess, and happy with it - it works. TBH I am more focussed reducing the number of apps lately. My phone is starting to slow down, and as I said, I will need a new phone soon. I don't want to accelerate that process if no devices are SouthSPAN compatible yet. That's what started this whole thread that has got overly convoluted, LOL. The setup I have is working with high accuracy, as I wish with QZSS, but one day, that may stop working. If it isn't broken, I don't want to change anything.
Anyway, I think you understand it enough now including why I want it, to research it for yourself.
I'll report back when I find a new device that works with the Australian SBAS.
In the mean time if you find one, please let the forum know too.
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Cyberess
Active Member
The bottom line I don't think it matters that much as most up-to-date latest Android phone will probably do what you want. Now with tablets that is a whole new matter all together,and a bit tricky, probably best to avoid one that has a pen as those have magnets that hold and charge the pen, and no compass, and a compass is a nice thing to have when navigating.
I have researched it, Cypress. That's not the case.
They need to support the new L5. There is a list of compatible devices and chip modules on the Australian government website I posted above; while it's a few months old, no phones or GNSS chips used in phones seem to be listed just yet. Hence my original question.
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Has anyone got any update on SouthPAN and mobile phone support? I too would like more accurate GPS positioning on my mobile phone (I use iPhone, but SouthPAN on an android would likely be a big draw card.
I was with someone today with a cheap aliexpress mobile from China (Andriod). He was getting reported accuracy less than 2m, which is a nice step up from my but less than 5m on my iPhone. I did not look under the hood at all, but suspect it might be QZSS??? Less than 2m still not as good as 10cm I think SouthPAN is supposed to be able to do. But still much better than my 5m.
But would love some sort of answer if and when we might have SouthPAN support on a commodity mobile phone. That would be a very useful feature for me and worth a phone upgrade.
I was with someone today with a cheap aliexpress mobile from China (Andriod). He was getting reported accuracy less than 2m, which is a nice step up from my but less than 5m on my iPhone. I did not look under the hood at all, but suspect it might be QZSS??? Less than 2m still not as good as 10cm I think SouthPAN is supposed to be able to do. But still much better than my 5m.
But would love some sort of answer if and when we might have SouthPAN support on a commodity mobile phone. That would be a very useful feature for me and worth a phone upgrade.