So what's going on with the Carbon Tax?

Les PK Ranger

4x4 Earth Contributer
Besides 'selling the farm(s)' to overseas buyers, and allowing overseas mining coys to invest heavily in this countries resources, it is bl00dy hard to read the other day of that Swiss mining co Glencore making $15 billion in the past 2 years pulling out our resources from the ground, and paying NO TAX.
They just arranged borrowings from overseas sources at exorbitant rates (double what the could have borrowed for here) and no doubt there's a massive kick back going on behind the scenes.
We are freaking crazy allowing this sort of behavior, there should be a major look at this, and appropriate penalties for corrupt actions / reporting.
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Millsy, be patient...........It hasn't all been explained to us yet, Wait, there is more to come , no doubt.

I'm just hoping that out of this we don't each end up with a set of Ginsu Steak knives or worse, another Plasma TV. ;)

And of course Murdock pulls strings, its just been revealed that he directed his press to "Kill Whitlam" ( not that his Govt. didn't deserve it at that point :D )

Every ar$ehole with an ounce of financial clout , if they can , will pull strings to achieve their aims - why should Murdock be any different ???:rolleyes::D:D Why does this seem to amaze, confuse, confound or upset you.

As you and I both know, any person who gets their info from one media source is a fool

Cheers

"As you and I both know, any person who gets their info from one media source is a fool "

In Adelaide we only have one newspaper in print. I only discovered The Age by accident a couple of weeks ago. And that was because I was traveling through Victoria. Yes, I was a fool I suppose. I been traveling to Victoria to see family for twenty years!

But here is a good example of how Murdoch keeps us in the dark. I did a quick check of this morning's Advertiser to find out what is happening in Federal politics. All I found, up to page 43 were two articles. The first was a very small piece on the side of page 5 - 'Debate on GST to start" Really! This should be front page news as far as importance goes. And as far as political trickery goes! ergo the last sentence - "The possibility of expanding the GST beyond 10 percent has been flagged after the Federal Government's decision to cut $80 billion in future funding from schools and hospitals".

But I suppose schools and hospitals and not that important in the overall scheme of things.

And the second, and probably last bit on 'the state of the nation' appeared as an opinion piece by Lauire Oaks. Again, this is one of those mindbendng exercises that I spoke about earlier. Make people think that politics is done by low down, sly, stupid politicians.

So people should forget about politics. It is not worth worrying about. Get on with your sport and your 4x4 and your bike riding. Just leave the business to running the country to Abbott and co. You don't need to worry yourself about those matters.

So the headline for Laurie Oaks opinion piece is "Climate back-flips show pollies at their worst" This is the trick Murdoch is playing at the moment. Constantly hitting us with the message that all politicians are liars and not to be trusted. And we are falling for it. Or some are.

The other trick is that we are not being given the actual news in The Advertiser. We are fed stories about "Cheating husband(s) burning toast and dead birds" on the front page - Crazy hour in E.R." This one softening us up as to why we might be waiting much longer in the E.R. next time we have real health emergency. Because of the idiots clogging it up. Nothing to do with Abbott pulling $80 billion out of hospitals and schools!

Again - more mind bending.

ONLY TWO PIECES OF INFORMATION ON FEDERAL POLITICS IN THE SATURDAY PAPER!

This has been happening, not just in the Saturday edition of The Advertiser, but every edition, for the past 8 months! And of course when the next election looms it will be politics from the front to back - all right wing, pro-Abbott propaganda and personal opinion pieces.

But right now their tactics are to 'keep us in the dark'. The less we know of what is really going on out there the better. That way WE HAVE NOTHING TO THINK ABOUT - except football, tennis, golf, 4x4 and bike riding lol.

But, if you have a look at the age we find out so much more;

Here's the mail: we want it daily

John Madigan's support gives Tony Abbott the chance to axe carbon tax

153 on board leaking boat plead for help

Abbott launches white paper to reduce federal-state balance of power

CBA under pressure over payouts

Liberals suspect internal party dirty tricks

Richard Alston replaces Alan Stockdale as Liberal Party president

Abbott government hoses down calls for royal commission into Commonwealth Bank over allegedly dodgy financial advice

And they were just one section of the POLITICS section the POLITICAL NEWS. There is also sections called POLITICAL OPINION, BREAKING POLITICS VIDEO, THE PULSE, THE SUGAR HIT, CARTOONS and ELECTION 2013

The Age - I recommend it to you.
 
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Stupid Flanders

New Member
Well that link just supports my statement about what a great PM we had in Julia Gillard! Please have a read through and find any one of those points regarding Julia Gillard telling a lie, or breaking a promise. Not one as far as I can see!

The whole lie thing was pretty well garbage.

She made two major blunders and both point to the obsession of pollies to get their hands so desperately on the 'precious' position of power.

The first was knifing Kevin Rudd. She had the high ground AND he was spiraling. All she needed to do was take the high ground saying along the lines of;

"I fully support Kevin Rudd as PM. He is doing a great job in difficult times. Kevin and I have agreed that if polling in three months shows he is not cutting through then Kevin has agreed to stand down. (Or words to that effect)." She most probably would have got it three months later and kept her credibility and honour intact.

The second was getting in bed with the Greens and the two independents. The Greens would never ever ever support Abbott and neither would the two independents.

On both occasions a smart, articulate ex lawyer stumbled like Gollum at Mt Doom in eagerness to get her prize.

Power is a drug.
 

Stupid Flanders

New Member
And after all this, no one has yet been able to tell me what is going on with the carbon tax. Do we in fact have a carbon tax. Or is Abbott/Palmer about to abolish an emissions trading scheme?

Hey Millsy

The Clean Energy Bill 2011 is current so we currently have a three year carbon tax that is legislated to change to an emission trading scheme in July 2015.

I would suggest that Palmer is playing a long game with the primary aim of forcing a double dissolution of parliament on the matter. This plays into the hands of PUP as the current govt has nose dived in the polls with a budget that is not supported by many.

A more balanced parliament would be a good thing for the country IMO.

Will be interesting watching for a bit I think. :)
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Besides 'selling the farm(s)' to overseas buyers, and allowing overseas mining coys to invest heavily in this countries resources, it is bl00dy hard to read the other day of that Swiss mining co Glencore making $15 billion in the past 2 years pulling out our resources from the ground, and paying NO TAX.
They just arranged borrowings from overseas sources at exorbitant rates (double what the could have borrowed for here) and no doubt there's a massive kick back going on behind the scenes.
We are freaking crazy allowing this sort of behavior, there should be a major look at this, and appropriate penalties for corrupt actions / reporting.

Yes Les, I saw that yesterday too. The mining companies fiddled their books with right downs in the first year of the mining tax too, so they got away with giving very little back to the Australian people. And of course the Murdoch press blamed the mining tax, and the Labor government, rather than pointing the finger at the mining companies.

So this is just another example of the big end of town doing very little of the heavy lifting, as far as helping to reign in the debt. But the poor man in the street, the sick, the students going to uni, and dozens of community groups, environmental groups, etc etc are made to take on the big sacrifices.

Typical right wing politics - look after the wealthy, and big business, and let everyone else look after themselves.
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Hey Millsy

The Clean Energy Bill 2011 is current so we currently have a three year carbon tax that is legislated to change to an emission trading scheme in July 2015.

I would suggest that Palmer is playing a long game with the primary aim of forcing a double dissolution of parliament on the matter. This plays into the hands of PUP as the current govt has nose dived in the polls with a budget that is not supported by many.

A more balanced parliament would be a good thing for the country IMO.

Will be interesting watching for a bit I think. :)

Thanks for that. Well done. Yes, the Clean Energy Bill. I remember when JG first announced it. It was far more than a simple carbon tax. It was an plan to take Australia into the future by encouraging the development of clean, sustainable energy technologies, both within the domestic and the industrial spheres. I for one took the hint and over the last few years have insulated my house, doubled my rainwater tank capacity and plumbed it all into the toilet, and fitted both solar voltaics and solar hot water heating. As have millions of other Australians, and thousands of businesses.

Gillard's Clean Energy Bill has saved Australia billions of dollars in energy bills, and reduced our carbon pollution at the same time. How could anyone argue that it was a bad thing. Oh, I forgot about some crazy, power hungry fellow called Tony Abbott.

So while the rest of the world just got on with updating their technologies to renewables, we argued for three years about whether she lied or not. Pathetic and laughable at the same time. So now we are left behind, and he is still carrying on in parliament with his 'toxic tax' one liners. Won't someone please lift the needle on the broken record!

It's time to get a life and get Australia back to prosperity, on the back of renewables. Not corrupt coal mines. No one wants Australian coal anymore. Just hope my superannuation is not tied up in fossil fuels. But from what I heard on the radio the other week, apparently a lot of our super IS invested in coal mines! Time to pull it out of there you guys, before it is too late!
 
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chris_stoffa

4x4 Earth Contributer
Yes Les, I saw that yesterday too. The mining companies fiddled their books with right downs in the first year of the mining tax too, so they got away with giving very little back to the Australian people. And of course the Murdoch press blamed the mining tax, and the Labor government, rather than pointing the finger at the mining companies.

So this is just another example of the big end of town doing very little of the heavy lifting, as far as helping to reign in the debt. But the poor man in the street, the sick, the students going to uni, and dozens of community groups, environmental groups, etc etc are made to take on the big sacrifices.

Typical right wing politics - look after the wealthy, and big business, and let everyone else look after themselves.

Millsy,

And Labor had how many years to fix this taxation rort and didn't , Why ????

Probably because they were too busy self imploding , back stabbing, and rorting for if they weren't doing all that then no doubt they would have fitted in somewhere how to fix the Taxation Inequality in this country - Not !!!, They did SFA about it !! and you know it as well as what the rest of us do.

So it aint just TA's fault or anyone in particular , its a failing of both political parties and us the electorate as a whole................. and you are part of that I'm afraid.
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Been part of the newspaper diet for years , here the Herald Sun is only good for the Crossword and Quiz, and for the opiate of addicted masses it's generally full of Aerial Ping Pong crap.

You might want to broaden your sources a little - I find this useful at times

Thousands of Online Newspapers on the Web : World Newspaper Directory : Listed on OnlineNewspapers.com

Cheers

Thanks for that Chris! Looks interesting. As you said, the only reason I buy The Advertiser now is because my wife loves doing the cross word. Maybe I can get organized enough to print it off each morning, from one of those on-line publications. And save myself $80 every ten weeks. Cheers.
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Millsy,

And Labor had how many years to fix this taxation rort and didn't , Why ????

Probably because they were too busy self imploding , back stabbing, and rorting for if they weren't doing all that then no doubt they would have fitted in somewhere how to fix the Taxation Inequality in this country - Not !!!, They did SFA about it !! and you know it as well as what the rest of us do.

So it aint just TA's fault or anyone in particular , its a failing of both political parties and us the electorate as a whole................. and you are part of that I'm afraid.

The thing about writing off interest paid on debt as tax deduction is quite legitimate in most cases. Negative gearing in the housing market has however forced up prices of houses in this country and needs to be looked at for sure.

My point about the mining tax is that in the first year the miners used another bit of book keeping trickery. But a trick that they could only use for one year as far as I could understand. Since the mining tax was, is, based on annual profits, the miners reduced their annual profits in the first year by simply writing down the value of their new infrastructure by huge amounts.

Well I don't think they could then do that again in year two, or they would be saying that all that infrastructure is worth almost nothing. And of course that is clearly not the case. Especially if that same infrastructure is exporting billions of dollars worth of ore overseas every year! So there was really no need to do anything as far as changing the mining tax to 'nip it in the bud'. Just wait twelve months and watch the income come rolling in year #2.

Of course it was the Murdoch press that took side with the miners when the mining tax was first being set up. The mining companies spent squillions on their huge advertising campaign, saying how they would all go to the wall if they had to pay any more taxes. And the Murdoch press, made Rudd look like an idiot, and with their daily polls plastered over the front page of their Newspapers, showed how unpopular he was. That scared the Labor party into giving him the flick and putting Gillard in his place. Then she had to water down the mining tax to shut the mining companies up and repair the damage done in the opinion polls. Or she would have suffered the same fate.

In the end she did. She just forestalled things. Soon after Murdoch began his endless and biased hate campaign, and the rest is history.

As far as corruption and rorts go, maybe you didn't see Four Corners a couple of weeks ago. Or was it last week. The unions could learn a lot from those Liberal and Coalition pollies. They know how to rort the tax payers with their corruption big time. And maybe you have not noticed the number of Liberal pollies that have had to resign just lately as they are found out by the ICAC investigations!

It is not just the unions Chris. I would say it is probably far more widespread in the Coalition ranks. I am just waiting for Tony Abbott to be called up to give evidence. Can't be far away now! And of course also waiting in anticipation of how my girlfriend fares in the allegations made against her - that she was the girlfriend of a corrupt union official. Does that mean she is also corrupted, because she shared a bed with him lol? Maybe it spreads, like some infectious diseases!
 
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bigjew

Member
I only care about family and friends these days. The train wreck of greedy,ideological,fundamentalist try hards crawling on their bellies around Parliament House,has convinced me that voting is a complete waste of time.:D
 

chris_stoffa

4x4 Earth Contributer
Millsy,

Like Packer said,"Any man who doesn't minimize his tax is a fool as the government isn't doing a real good job of spending it" or similar.

They do it because they are allowed to, they can , it's legal and it's permitted so until it isn't then it exactly the same as Murdoch........... he can , so he does . And while it exists I don't see a problem with it. Its legal !

I claim my max deductions and I will use my influence in what I do when and where I can , in my sphere of influence, to my advantage - therefore I must be corrupt :rolleyes:

We and successive governments, since the Packer statement, have know of these taxation issues and machinations and yet nothing has been done and now all are whinging about the Zero Tax companies, corruption whether it by Libs or Labour and/or the Unions or just the average Joe contractor that skims a contract is endemic in this country and you are worried about a few overseas impressions and only one side of politics.

Use that obvious intellect, knowledge and passion to pull all the ba$tards into line - JG, KR JH TA - Not one of them "is without sin" in this.

Cheers
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Should be a very interesting program tonight on Four Corners - Renewable energies and where Australia is heading compared to the rest of the world. Food for more ideas on climate change, and the carbon tax Vs direct action.

Last ditch letter: Our plea for pricing | Business Spectator

And Q&A should also be an interesting one tonight - a panel of economics experts looking at Australia's future. I think with particular emphasis on the new budget and government directions.
 
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billolga

Well-Known Member
Wasn't it interesting Al Gore attending while Clive Palmer announced he was voting against it - I am very confused.

Did you know that Al charges $150K to $500K for an appearance - I wonder why.
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
This article is a good read. Giving the data to show what a great job the Carbon Tax has done to achieve reductions in emissions over the last two years. But Greg Hunt, the Environment Minister, says otherwise.

Will the real Greg Hunt please stand up? | Business Spectator

From near the end of this article;
"At 3.6 per cent the annual average reduction in emissions in the electrical power sector since the GFC, sustained in part by the carbon pricing mechanism, is just a few points under the critical value of 4 per cent. As pointed out here, 4 per cent annually is what is required to achieve the 80 per cent reduction in emissions by 2050 needed to avoid the possibility of serious and irreversible global warming."

And I saw in the Four Corners program last night that one city in the United States is already at 96% of electricity provided from renewable energy! Very soon Canberra will have its new solar array switched on, and I think it said that it would provide 60% of its electrical energy.

And this one also in Canberra - News - Solar power to the people - Canberra CityNewsCanberra CityNews

Again, near the end of the link;
"Today’s announcement follows the release of the Solar Auction Review report yesterday and the introduction of new legislation to raise the renewable energy cap from 210 megawatts to 550 megawatts, to provide for large-scale renewable energy investments that will support the achievement of the ACT’s 90 per cent renewable electricity target by 2020."

But the government has a better plan. Will be interesting to look back after two years of their Direct Action plan and see what it has achieved.
 
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dno67

Well-Known Member
But the government has a better plan. Will be interesting to look back after two years of their Direct Action plan and see what it has achieved.

Well, that's going to depend on who we hear it from ..;)
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
As Chris keeps saying, you have to be like an octopus (not the Rolf Harris kind though!). Have you information tentacles reaching out for bits and pieces of news from all over. Then you should be able to build up your own conclusions. These articles in my post above are trying to prove a point, I agree, using, and possibly stretching, statistical data a bit. So you can't make up your mind from any one article.

I find it fascinating to just keep my eyes open and see how the story of renewable energy and climate change unfolds over time, both in Australia and around the world. I reckon I have been interested in the renewable energy issue since the mid to late nineties. Back then there was hardly anything, if anything at all, on global warming and renewable energies in the newspaper. I used to show science videos to the students at school about how our world oil supplies were running out, and that by about 2007 we will have reached the peak of the 'bell curve' in the Peak Oil theory. So it is about time we started to think about renewable, sustainable, energy supplies. This to take the pressure off oil, gas and coal.

The concepts of global warming and greenhouse gases had not been released to the public in those days. It was just about conserving our non-renewable fossil fuels. I remember sailing past the Port River Power Station every Saturday afternoon. It was powered by oil. It was still operating in the mid nineties. Oil was probably still fairly cheap back then. I think the only reason it closed down was due to the price increases of oil. Nothing to do with carbon emissions back then.

And then a few CO2/Global warming stories started to pop up. I think around 2000. Maybe a little later. And before we knew it just about every page of The Advertiser had a story that had some relevance to fossil fuels and global warming! I used to cut them out as resources for science projects for the students. It was crazy, I was cutting out articles from just about every page of the first half of The Advertiser!

And then of course, the Al Gore video - 'An Inconvenient Truth', in 2006!

But now the crisis is over apparently. We hardly get any news at all in The Advertiser about the progress of climate change. It's all kept hushed up. Or maybe it is not news worthy anymore. We all know we are doomed and they think we don't want to know what is going on anymore.

Or maybe politics had something to do with it! Elections needed to be won. Readers had to be soothed. Voters had to be swayed. Can't help Abbott The Denier if we talk about the ongoing march of the effects of climate change. Better keep it quiet and write about those idiots who are trying to do something about it - Rudd and Gillard.

So, as I said, we have to go looking elsewhere. It's out there. You just have to go digging for it.
 
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Stupid Flanders

New Member
HI Millsy

Thanks for your posts I always look forward to your reasoned point of view.

I enjoyed a book by Jared Diamond called 'Collapse' that dealt with how civilisations deal with change. Very interesting.

What is so frustrating to me is the fact that we rely on scientists / economists / professors for much of our well being yet on this matter, possibly one of the most critical we have faced, so many of us choose to ditch them and listen to hacks and shock jocks.

I think it comes down to the selfish and risk taking side of our evolution.

Over the past six elections I have voted liberal. Until the last one. God this current lot are the pits (on both sides). Though I have to give it to Abbott - what an amazing politician. I doubt there has been a better politician, particularly in opposition, for years. (and thats not a compliment LOL)

cheers
 

chris_stoffa

4x4 Earth Contributer
I enjoyed a book by Jared Diamond called 'Collapse' that dealt with how civilisations deal with change. Very interesting.

An Excellent book - (quote below from Wikipedia)

The root problem in all but one of Diamond's factors leading to collapse is overpopulation relative to the practicable (as opposed to the ideal theoretical) carrying capacity of the environment. The one factor not related to overpopulation is the harmful effect of accidentally or intentionally introducing nonnative species to a region.
Diamond also states that "it would be absurd to claim that environmental damage must be a major factor in all collapses: the collapse of the Soviet Union is a modern counter-example, and the destruction of Carthage by Rome in 146 BC is an ancient one. It's obviously true that military or economic factors alone may suffice" .


Which interestingly is a pretty good synopsis of the real elephant in the room - overpopulation , and we are well on our way towards that as a species.


Besides Microsoft ;), we humans are the worst virus on earth.
 
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