So what's going on with the Carbon Tax?

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Lot of stuff happening with Clive Palmer and the axing of the Carbon Tax. But I am a bit confused I must admit! Have we still got a Carbon Tax, or has it already reverted to a an emissions trading scheme? If it has, then they shouldn't be talking about 'axing the tax' anymore!

This article suggests that our price on carbon will soon be $25/tonne of CO2. Maybe the emission trading scheme starts on July 1st? Does anyone here know please? I tried a bit of Googling yesterday and couldn't pin it down.

As far as Abbott's claim that most countries around the world are stepping back from emissions trading schemes, and that our 'soon to be' price of $22/tonne is one of the highest in the world, this article seems to show otherwise. Just another example of TA trying to justify his scare campaign about the carbon tax over the last three years.

Clive Palmer?s emissions trading world | Business Spectator
 

dno67

Well-Known Member
Millsy there all lairs, it's just tony's got better legs than Joolier.
Can't help with the carbon tax at the moment but good to hear from ya.
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Yes, some are much bigger liars than others IMO. As far as I can remember Julia Gillard was alleged to have told one lie. And I, and many others believe she was falsely accused of course. It not being a lie, but a statement of intent that became a bargaining chip with the Greens, when the election produced a hung parliament.

I cannot remember any other 'lies' she was accused of by Abbott, or others. I believe she was, and is, a woman of outstanding integrity. On the other hand our new PM has blatanlty broken dozens of his promises, or statements of intent, that he gave us before the election. He has had no hung parliament. No surprises to contend with. He has no excuses at all.

So I retract my opening comment. Julia was/is not a liar. And on that basis I beg to disagree with you that they are all liars. This is in fact the line that coalition lovers, both in private and in the media, are peddling now to try to justify the acts of their poster boys - TA and JH, and all the others.
So, Julia is set up as a liar, and that dominates public debate, on the TV, in the papers, on this forum, and in every bar etc around the country for three years. If you ever listened to parliament on the radio, that is all that the coalition talked about for three years. Non stop - Juliar, the Lying *****, She Lied. On and on.

Now we have TA and co breaking promises and lying about so many things (e.g. that countries around the world are stepping back from ETS, and why should Australia be the only ones doing anything about climate change, when clearly we are not the only ones, etc etc). And is anyone talking about it! Why isn't it big headlines on the front pages of the paper, or first headline story on the nightly news I wonder.

Instead all we seem to get is some wimpy - 'Oh, its not worth worrying about Millsy - they're all liers.' Not good enough. That's just trying to get people not to think about the important things. Well the more extreme weather that wrecks our cities and farms, then maybe the more people might think about climate change. But would be nice if they also think about what could be do to alleviate the problem! And following our PM, sticking his head in the sand and hoping it will all go away, is not very clever!

I feel we are the laughing stock of all rational people around the world, as far as climate change is concerned.

I see in the news that there are more Australians now who want our country to have an emissions trading scheme than otherwise. And that was probably the case before the election anyway. So Abbott is going against the wishes of the majority if he manages to 'axe the tax'. I think he is probably axing an ETS in fact. Just what most people want!
 
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millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
I have been on the road again. Three weeks touring on a bike this time, towing a camper trailer - Elizabeth to Geelong and back. Travelled via the coast to Geelong, then back through the Grampians and the Dukes Highway for the return trip.

Am so happy to have found a newspaper, 'over the border', that gives far more balanced and factual information on politics than our pathetic Advertiser. Or the Herlad Sun for that matter. It's called The Age. Had never read it before, but after reading the Herald Sun and seeing it to be full of the same rubbish as The Advertiser, I thought I would have a look at The Age. I was hooked. Very thoroughly researched stories. And Articles and news that actually show TA and JH in often less than favourable ways. Unlike those other biased papers lol. Was a real treat. The Age - One of Victoria's best kept secrets! And I can read it on-line over here too - for free. How good is that!

Here are some picks of my rig, and a few more - an American made prime mover (Diamonback), 3x8 gears handle thebig climbs with ease, wide 25mm tyres for the dirt and sand, excellent articulation with sprung forks up front and well sprung drivers seat at the back, powerful V-braking system to cope with steep descents and the heavy trailer (32kg Tare Weight, 150kg Gross Weight at start, 145kg GW at end), pack rack with three large containers including a large tool kit. Trailer fitted with wide MT tyres, 90 litre storage box, tent and mattress on top in normal fashion. Very easy set up and pull down procedure. Sand flag for safety plus hazard LED lighting and 1200 lumen spotlight to 'light up the night' hanging off the front bar.

Cost for the bike, including pack rack and storage bags - $120. And for the camper trailer $60.

Reasonable economy, but could be better with less load - 3 iced coffees, 2 cakes and 2 pies per 90km. That works out to be about $30 per 90km or 10$ per 30km. The Patrol is about 2x more fuel efficient at $5 per 30km. But overall a fairly cheap three week holiday since I was only averaging about 90km/day.

First pic was taken on the Telegraph Track about 25km west of Portland, passing through a State Forest. Very nice compared to sharing the road with hundreds of logging trucks between Millicent and Portland.

Second pic on the Old Rail Trail between Port Fairy and Koroit.

Third pic outside the lovely bakery at Koroit.

Fourth pic was when I found the council grader, pulling a huge roller, repairing the track through the wetlands near Warnambool.

Last pic was next to the State Forest near Wail, on the edge of the Little Desert.
 

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jacnden

Well-Known Member
"I cannot remember any other 'lies' she was accused of by Abbott, or others. I believe she was, and is, a woman of outstanding integrity. On the other hand our new PM has blatanlty broken dozens of his promises, or statements of intent, that he gave us before the election. He has had no hung parliament. No surprises to "

heres a few
i fully support kevin rudd
there is more chance of me flying to mars than being PM
there is more chance of me playing for the bulldogs than being PM
every ruputable climate change scientists agree with the carbon tax
there will be no carbon tax under a government i lead
there will be no power sharing with the greens
the health rebate is here to stay
the report that bob carr wiil fill the vacancy left by mark arbib is completly untrue

and then there is the rorting of union funds by her boyfriend that paid for alterations to her altona house

thats just a few of the top of my head
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Very funny. I think she upset a lot of voters when she didn't fly to Mars, and didn't play for the bulldogs. You really do dredge deep jacnden.

Now since you are making lists, and thanks for jolting my memory by the way, would you like to line up against your Julia lies, the lies from Tony Abbott. And maybe put a dollar value on them as far as they affect the people of Australia. Maybe the savings on the carbon tax lie for a start;

He says how the carbon tax means we pay about $550 more per year for electricity. Studies show it is more likely to be about $250 per year. About 1% of the average electricity bill.

And yesterday I received notice form my electricity supplier telling me that on July 1st my charges for power will rise by about 20%. There goes the generous 1% of savings that TA tells us our bills will be reduced by! He kept blaming the carbon tax for our huge electricity bills. He knew it was a lie all the time. He kept saying the Australian economy would be freed of this 'toxic tax' and will prosper when he got rid of it. Sure TA. Who would believe anything you say, after all the broken promises, and continued lies.

The government sets up a body to investigate the horrible effects of all these renewable energy technologies on our power prices. They hoped to prove that by getting rid of the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, and the RET target, and those horrible wind turbines and anything else that doesn't use coal to make power, that our power prices will plummet.

Well, bad luck Tony, your investigative body found yesterday that renewable energies actually have kept the price of electricity below what it might have been without them. He is stuck on digging up and burning coal is our Tony. A fossil leader, full of old ideas, buried in the past with his fossil fuels. Wake up man. Get with it. See what is happening out there. So embarrassing if you go overseas these days. Where are you from? Well, er, er . . .
 
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chris_stoffa

4x4 Earth Contributer
So embarrassing if you go overseas these days. Where are you from? Well, er, er . . .

Millsy, you might be, I certainly aren't embarrassed to say where I am from and never have been or will be.

If you think we are solely judged on the foibles of our politicians then you are, I'm sorry to say, deluded and/or sadly mistaken. :D

The average swinging dick in the street overseas couldn't give a tinkers cuss about our politicians and who, like us, are not profoundly impacted by the machinations of either TA and JG as we are not by theirs.

Go On, admit it, whilst some of your points may have some validity that bit was you just having a good old Leftie whinge again:D:D

Cheers
 
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Stupid Flanders

New Member
Both sides lie to get power. It's as simple as that and always will be.

The lying is set early in a political career as no one ever wants to be told "no" so they say "yes" and deal with the fallout later.

:)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

RoughNReady

Member
I just explain to anyone from another country that the views of the government in no way reflect those of the people and ask them not to judge us based on what they do. We can't do anything about it!

i still maintain that the ACT is laid out like a big target for a reason...
 

Paddler Ed

Well-Known Member
As a foreigner (Pom) based in Australia, and studying environmental economics in Australia, there are a couple of observations I can make:

-Both mainstream political parties are full of shysters, you're just lucky/unlucky which flavour you get

-The rush to mine everything out of Australia has got to stop; this mining of mineral resources and the prospect of gas extraction from the Artesian basin not sustainable, and may well cripple an industry that can provide for the expanding Asian population for a much longer period

-The threat to the Great Barrier Reef, ancient growth rainforest and natural habitat through mining and exploitation of natural resources IS going to make you look the Western equivalent of the Taliban after they blew up the Buddhas of Bamiyan, which were nearly as irreplaceable.

However, none of this will happen unless there are limits (that are enforced and transparent) on political donations. IE NO political donations from a company, you must have been a member of the political party for 5 years before you can make a donation (stops people trying to change opinion at the last minute) to an established party (Libs, Nationals, Labour, Greens or a.n. other that has been in 2 elections or more)

Look at the mess that the NSW political parties are in regarding the donations on the Central Coast, and the ICAC proceedings....
 

Paddler Ed

Well-Known Member
My major is Ag and Resource Economics, so I tend to have a bias towards sustainable practices, of which mining a finite resource (by definition) is not a sustainable practice in all honesty, no matter what the Benefit Cost Analysis says (I'm sure they changed to BCA from CBA so it no longer means Can't Be Arsed...)

My biggest bugbear is the lack of Australian-centric texts on the subject; many come from the UK and the US, and the US ones are U/S as they often are a derivative of the standard microeconomic model rather than a bespoke environmental one.... The US ones also tend to favour big business, rather than the environment, and don't examine the systems in place elsewhere in the world. The UK ones tend to be a better balance, but don't cover the subjects peculiar to Australia (invasive species, the balance between mining and ag production, the tourism draw cards, the Indigenous history and culture and the fact that food is what keeps the world going, not minerals....)
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...koPGDv4gOBkoLlVmiJCg1BA&bvm=bv.69837884,d.dGI

not sure this link will work, but its a facebook page from early in the previous government

hope you having a good ride out ther millsy

Well that link just supports my statement about what a great PM we had in Julia Gillard! Please have a read through and find any one of those points regarding Julia Gillard telling a lie, or breaking a promise. Not one as far as I can see!

Yes, I enjoyed my ride for the most part. Just made the wrong choice in doing the road between Millicent and Mount Gambier. Nice drive in a car, but horror on a bike with all those logging trucks. The Dukes Highway from Keith to Tailem Bend was a pleasure with its wide verge. And also the Western Highway between Ararat and Bordertown. But very rough surface for bikes between Bordertown and Keith!
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
As a foreigner (Pom) based in Australia, and studying environmental economics in Australia, there are a couple of observations I can make:

-Both mainstream political parties are full of shysters, you're just lucky/unlucky which flavour you get

-The rush to mine everything out of Australia has got to stop; this mining of mineral resources and the prospect of gas extraction from the Artesian basin not sustainable, and may well cripple an industry that can provide for the expanding Asian population for a much longer period

-The threat to the Great Barrier Reef, ancient growth rainforest and natural habitat through mining and exploitation of natural resources IS going to make you look the Western equivalent of the Taliban after they blew up the Buddhas of Bamiyan, which were nearly as irreplaceable.

However, none of this will happen unless there are limits (that are enforced and transparent) on political donations. IE NO political donations from a company, you must have been a member of the political party for 5 years before you can make a donation (stops people trying to change opinion at the last minute) to an established party (Libs, Nationals, Labour, Greens or a.n. other that has been in 2 elections or more)

Look at the mess that the NSW political parties are in regarding the donations on the Central Coast, and the ICAC proceedings....

Agree with all your points on the environment. Also I would add how upset I am with how the Coalition is wanting to tear up the long negotiated agreement between the forestry industry and the environmentalists in Tasmania.

Tony Abbott's speech splits brokers of Tasmanian Forest Agreement

And on the mining front, the world is moving away from coal and uranium as sources of energy. China and India know that coal destroys their air quality. People regularly need paper masks as they walk the streets to filter out the air pollution! So they are ramping up their research and use of renewable energy technologies. And so should we.

In my mind the mining of fossil fuels is also an unsustainable activity. Not just because they are a finite resource, but because of the damage they do to the atmosphere, causing pollution and causing climate change. Climate change causing species extinctions on top of all the other human population related extinctions, also rising sea levels, and of course extreme weather events. And time is running out for the World to act on greenhouse gases. Tony Abbott's behaviors in this respect are atrocious and completely irresponsible.

And why am I ashamed to call myself an Australian, because we can't blame the hopeless politicians for what they do, the lies they tell, and the broken promises. We need to look at the cause of the problem. Why are these politicians overseeing our great country, and dragging it down and backwards. BECAUSE WE ELECTED THEM! It is our fault. We get the politicians we deserve. We need to take responsibility for that fact. We were duped by Murdoch. We cannot think for ourselves!

You make a good point about the problems with political donations, as outlined on the Four Corners program just recently. But another big problem in Australia is the domination of our media by Murdoch. We are not a country in control of our own destiny. We are a country controlled by one man. Not a politician, but a media magnate! What he wants, he gets. By manipulating our thoughts. We need a much more balanced range of ideas to consume before we have a real democracy.

I wonder what the situation is in England, America or Europe. It seems that many other countries are moving to the right of politics at the moment. Is Murdoch pulling the strings over there too?

Will be a very sad day for me if The Age falls over.
 
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millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
And after all this, no one has yet been able to tell me what is going on with the carbon tax. Do we in fact have a carbon tax. Or is Abbott/Palmer about to abolish an emissions trading scheme?
 

dno67

Well-Known Member
We over regulated and taxed industry here pushing manufacturing off shore now we buy products manufactured from counties where they burn our old tyres as a fuel source and pollute the the same air we breath...
We'll be buying dirty power from OS next they already own the infrastructure..
I say a step backwards is something that should be looked at sometimes in order to proceed
forward ?
I'm sure I was born 100 years to late.. haha
 

chris_stoffa

4x4 Earth Contributer
And after all this, no one has yet been able to tell me what is going on with the carbon tax. Do we in fact have a carbon tax. Or is Abbott/Palmer about to abolish an emissions trading scheme?

Millsy, be patient...........It hasn't all been explained to us yet, Wait, there is more to come , no doubt.

I'm just hoping that out of this we don't each end up with a set of Ginsu Steak knives or worse, another Plasma TV. ;)

And of course Murdock pulls strings, its just been revealed that he directed his press to "Kill Whitlam" ( not that his Govt. didn't deserve it at that point :D )

Every ar$ehole with an ounce of financial clout , if they can , will pull strings to achieve their aims - why should Murdock be any different ???:rolleyes::D:D Why does this seem to amaze, confuse, confound or upset you.

As you and I both know, any person who gets there info from one media source is a fool

Cheers
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
We over regulated and taxed industry here pushing manufacturing off shore now we buy products manufactured from counties where they burn our old tyres as a fuel source and pollute the the same air we breath...
We'll be buying dirty power from OS next they already own the infrastructure..
I say a step backwards is something that should be looked at sometimes in order to proceed
forward ?
I'm sure I was born 100 years to late.. haha

Well I am ashamed to be known as an Australian also because of how backward we are. We cannot even make a television set anymore. Or a computer. Or an aeroplane. Soon we will be unable to make a car.

Once we were leaders in innovation and technology. We invented Wi-fi for instance. Now all we are good for is digging and planting. Mining and agriculture. And we are not very good at digging anymore. Mining trucks and trains are being driven by remote control from an office in Perth! Using equipment made OS. And China is moving in to do the big farming to feed ii's billions. They will no doubt be bringing their own machinery operators, as in the mining industry - people using remote controls, GPS, etc sitting in a control complex. But Abbott says our country needs to be opened up for investment. We have no money.

Why can't we do much anymore. Why are we getting dumber and dumber. Well this is part of it. Just found this in The Age on-line -

"The CSIRO stands to lose about 700 staff in the coming 2014-15 year, on top of 477 jobs already lost in the past 12 months.

Acting secretary of the CSIRO staff association, Michael Borgas, said the budget blow and the scale of jobs being axed was "unprecedented".

"It's no exaggeration to say the CSIRO faces a jobs crisis...we could be looking at the largest reduction in staffing at CSIRO in the organisation's history."

Some of the research areas to be hit include neuroscience, colorectal cancer, liquid fuels, renewable energy, carbon capture and storage, information technology and manufacturing research. Eight sites will be closed across the country.

Dr Borgas said the federal government needed to recognise that "investing our taxes and investing our business and research money is for the betterment of the country".

"This is just unacceptable to continue this ignorant approach of how we develop our nation," he said."

Thanks Mr Abbott, well done! Australia marching forward - NOT!

CSIRO scientists protest 'unprecedented' job cuts
 
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dno67

Well-Known Member
There just getting to the stage where living of ever seems to be a possibility only to work out the planet wont be worth living on.
When I was very young I used to wish on every falling star or chicken wish bone or any other good luck occasion that I'd live for ever. Now I'm getting older, I'm thinking I'll be glad to go.
 
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