Respect for the BUSH (ABUSE IT AND LOSE IT!)

darb

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm not one to dish it out - have too much to lose in life, and I don't smoke meth like they do.

Authorities aren't going to do much except gate things and cite the behaviour as the reason.

They might post something up on social media seeking information (which just agitates the non-4wders) but end of the day the "judicial" system doesn't really handle these sort of things well - it's just too big & too heavy to dish out anything useful.

Photographing and then naming and shaming with ridicule might help, and even Unlock Australia's "dob in a dickhead" campaign were good ideas (it got shut down).

The real crux of the issue is that probably half of all 4wders in 4wd'ing circles (less so on sites like this one, but go onto the FB 4wd'ing groups where there are tens of thousands of active people per day and you'll see) will see the above behaviour as perfectly acceptable ... stating that we're all a bunch of sooks, "it's just a bit of dirt, relax", "don't be a sooky c&^%" ... or worse.

Meatheadism is rife in this country, and intelligent / conservative / mild / go-lightly mindsets are shouted down, laughed at.

It's only the minority like us who would look at a nice grassy/green patch of camp site and think to ourselves "Let's NOT turn that into a churned up mud pit"
 

silkwood

Well-Known Member
There's dense meatheads everywhere in this nation, many take pride in themselves.

I "liked" your post because of this (not sure about the "smack in the head" part). It amazes me people can be so simple minded as to take pride in their stupidity and arrogance. About the only thing which I can see having an impact on such people is banning them from places and taking their vehicles away. Sad.
 

rogerazz

4x4 Earth Contributer
Unfortunately, this type of behaviour is seen by a very large portion of people in Australia as the norm, ok, what's the problem? etc.
It is in our culture. What's wrong with doing circle work? burnouts, etc.
It is not only in 4wd circles, it is in all walks of life. Played a game of golf yesterday and at the fifteenth, way out from the clubhouse and out of sight, came across some decent circle work thrashing the fairway. Yep, done by a golf cart/s on last weekend. Also had dirt bike riders doing circle work on the greens, flags and pins stolen, broken, etc. etc. Usually done through school holidays, so reckon we have not taught our kids well and it will go on for another generation.
 

Bomber2012

Well-Known Member
Authorities aren't going to do much except gate things and cite the behaviour as the reason
Not true at all @darb , if you can get rego, type of vehicle , pic of the driver (preferably video) , time , location , pic of the damage authorities will definitely act on it and if neccessary inform Police for them to charge the driver under hoon laws if on a gazetted road or campground , which can result in car being crushed (Victoria , don't know in other states ?) . Authorities/Rangers do not want areas being closed down , they need people to follow the steps above to convict these people , after all if areas are shut their jobs (Rangers) go with them . If you don't know the process surrounding enforcement please don't take a stab at what you think authorities will and won't do as people read it and take your word as gospel , Authorities are keen to punish hoons/litterbugs and are very supportive in taking you through the process of reporting this behaviour , and No you don't always have to got to court for a punishment to be dealt with , evidence as mentioned above will seal the deal in court .
 

darb

Well-Known Member
Not true at all @darb , if you can get rego, type of vehicle , pic of the driver (preferably video) , time , location , pic of the damage authorities will definitely act on it and if neccessary inform Police for them to charge the driver under hoon laws if on a gazetted road or campground , which can result in car being crushed (Victoria , don't know in other states ?) . Authorities/Rangers do not want areas being closed down , they need people to follow the steps above to convict these people , after all if areas are shut their jobs (Rangers) go with them . If you don't know the process surrounding enforcement please don't take a stab at what you think authorities will and won't do as people read it and take your word as gospel , Authorities are keen to punish hoons/litterbugs and are very supportive in taking you through the process of reporting this behaviour , and No you don't always have to got to court for a punishment to be dealt with , evidence as mentioned above will seal the deal in court .

Well I hope you are right! I've just never heard of a single fine or infringement being issued for off-road area abuse.

My experience with actual crimes is that things just don't get prosecuted, or rarely. I've had wallets stolen, cards used, CCTV of it occurring - and them using the cards at the merchants produced ... home address of the perpetrator given to the policce ... camera footages from people who have jumped my fence to steal things, in glorious 1080 vision, including knowing where they lived! - Cops have repeatedly told me "we're just too busy to chase these sorts of low grade things"

Called 000 the other day as a guy was bashing his girlfriend in the middle of the street, infront of their kid ... noone ever turned up. A follow up call from them many hours later to "discuss it" had the same sentiments - cops too busy to get there in time.

ALl sorts of other anti social behaviour I've reported, cops barely even raise an eyelid. Australia Day at a lake I was at, rampant anti-social behavour (there was something like 20,000 people attending the lake over 3 days), clearly drunk driving, PA systems blaring, skids and burnouts right past other people's camps ... every 5 - 10 minutes. The cops, and rangers were there, they did SFA. They'd have a "chat" with a few people, and as soon as they drive off the behaviour returned - still in ear shot, and line of sight of the patrol car - everyone just laughing at the coppers.

The Coppers and rangers just couldn't act - too much tide against them.

So it just makes me sceptical that a bit of circle work in the bush is going to get sorted.
 

darb

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, this type of behaviour is seen by a very large portion of people in Australia as the norm, ok, what's the problem? etc.
It is in our culture. What's wrong with doing circle work? burnouts, etc.
It is not only in 4wd circles, it is in all walks of life. Played a game of golf yesterday and at the fifteenth, way out from the clubhouse and out of sight, came across some decent circle work thrashing the fairway. Yep, done by a golf cart/s on last weekend. Also had dirt bike riders doing circle work on the greens, flags and pins stolen, broken, etc. etc. Usually done through school holidays, so reckon we have not taught our kids well and it will go on for another generation.

Yeah it does happen everywhere, the difference is those areas like golf course and such are civil areas that are managed, with budgets and plans ... so when it happens it's seen for what it is - an offence. Likewise someone does a burnout on the road, its seen as an offence.

Whereas offroad areas which tend to be lawless (in many cases anyway) , un-managed, huge expanses of land, and no relative budget ... what you get is the non-4wd'ing landmanagers and general community attitudes thinking 'well you don't need to be in there anyway' ... and pressure mounts to gate the areas / ban it altogether, issue fines to all .. aka "lock it up". Or citizens putting tyre stakes in.

Most of the places I frequent are probably technically not lawful to be camping there ... but it's understood and accepted as being OK, ranger will give a nod with discretion. But, if population and meathead pressure brings the drama, then in go gates (or fines / bans / tree cams - which affects conservative honest users).

Somehow, the 4wd game needs to self-regulate
 

Bomber2012

Well-Known Member
skids and burnouts right past other people's camps ... every 5 - 10 minutes. The cops, and rangers were there, they did SFA. They'd have a "chat" with a few people, and as soon as they drive off the behaviour returned - still in ear shot, and line of sight of the patrol car - everyone just laughing at the coppers.

So the Police/Rangers were watching these people doing skids/burn outs in a camping area ????

Most of the places I frequent are probably technically not lawful to be camping there ...

I don't know how laws are enforced in other states but in VIC its black and white , you can either camp there or you can't , burn outs/skids are not tolerated in camping grounds and fines will be issued . In regard to camping in the wrong area rangers will usually tell you to move on and as long as your not destroying fauna etc or giving them a mouth full ....thats as far as it will go .
 

idiomatically

Well-Known Member
Somehow, the 4wd game needs to self-regulate

This is bang on, we as a community need to put pressure on the 4wd media to set a decent example and engage with businesses that support these gronks. I know of a town in CQ that got together and local businesses started refusing service for things like fuel and grog to people proven to cause damage to the local area.

I seriously want Rangers to have the powers to impound and defect vehicles. Don't let this stuff take up the courts time, give them on the spot powers and if someone wants to fight it make them take it to the courts to defend it like speeding fines.
 

darb

Well-Known Member
So the Police/Rangers were watching these people doing skids/burn outs in a camping area ????

Yup. It was like watching a shark swim through a school of fish where they all scurry but ultimately no bites. I'm sure they'd like to have but valued their own life.
Come night time there were definitely no rangers, only police. Granted, Australia Day weekend is basically a write-off - I'll be staying home next year.

On any given moment there were 3 - 4 large P.A systems running, absolutely rampant drunken behaviour, blokes doing laps around the campgrounds with people on roofs, trays, window sills - drinks in hand, PA systems hanging from the back of wagon or back of Ute. Always revving up, doing fishies to show off. Large scale partying, dust plumes from circle work running all the time ... and it went to 2 - 3am most mornings after starting up again at 9am on each day. Come night time it really ramped up, fireworks and flares set off probably 30 times, flares landing on tents and bush. Cops / rangers (one vehicle of each) would patrol past, and it was like watching a shark swim through a huge school of fish but no bites made.

Firies rocked up a couple of times when flares were running into the bush.

Then there's the water, drunken boaties in the hundreds, jetskis being erratically flogged right near shore (they're not even allowed on the water), home made pontoons with 20 people on them, listing, drunk girls with tits out dancing on them (great to look at but god help them if the pontoon sinks). There were ski boats and jetskis running through to midnight, at full speeds, close shore passes to the cheers of the groups. Water Police didn't show up once because because they are under-staffed and there is mayhem across all the lakes and public waterways - with exact same symptoms at them all.

Several times I had to put the boat between my rider and an out of control Jetski or boat as they barrelled down on our riders.

Here's a quick bit of drone footage from when it was super super quiet, and only one part of it (the camping went much deeper into the bush but you can't see it), at about 7am I think. This was about the only time that the mayhem wasn't occurring. In fact I laughed about the drone footage beause it actually make it look quite civil.

Apparently an awful lot of the people that were there in the afternoons and night time didn't stay, they'd all drive off home - which is why this video is so quiet.

Anyways, I'm waffling. Don't know the answers apart from bubonic plague to greatly thin the population and somehow make 4wds & camping uncool.

 
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darb

Well-Known Member
Where was it

Lake Navarino. A bloke drowned apparently though we didn't see it. Authorities are all pointing fingers at each other as there's blurry lines between State Govt, Police, Rangers, WaterCorp, Caravan Park owners (who "manage the lake" but have no powers) ... which is part of the problem I suspect.

I find Australia Day has morphed into shallow redneckery (and I'm a fan of a bit of red neckery but not to disrespectful levels)
 

smitty_r51

Well-Known Member
What I don't get from your drone footage

Most of the cars are probably 30-40k
Free boats in the water are not $10 inflatables

How are these people able to afford this sort of kit but not be the social conscience to go with it.

Usually to get the nice toys you have to work bloody hard... That instils a certain way of acting...
 

darb

Well-Known Member
What I don't get from your drone footage

Most of the cars are probably 30-40k
Free boats in the water are not $10 inflatables

How are these people able to afford this sort of kit but not be the social conscience to go with it.

Usually to get the nice toys you have to work bloody hard... That instils a certain way of acting...

To my mind there were a lot of "non boaty" blowins and shitboxes, and you generally don't see a 100k 200 series being flogged around but some old patrol with P Plates on it. Not to lay it squarely with the youth though, saw plenty of shit behaviour from older people too. Girls included

Just a lot of short sighted, entitled, meathead-pride ways of being.

Loads of $$$ around these parts , even since the down-turn.
 

darb

Well-Known Member
btw, the whole lake thing is a different to the deep 4wd tracks type thing to my mind anyway. (I just went there coz we were meandering our chatting around police / ranger response).
 

rogerazz

4x4 Earth Contributer
Only camped on Australia Day weekend once. That was up at Gough's Bay Eildon couple of years back.
Was me, the missus, daughter, Son in Law , five grand kids. Apart from everyone drinking, doing monos on dirt bikes, shooting ducks on water with bow and arrows, up all night music blaring, cops driving through and not stopping, it was a typical Australia Day festivity. Ah! we will clean up later. Or is it that family did it for us.
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There's a duck. Just have to watch out for those kids swimming over there.
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Have another beer mate while we wait for some more ducks and I can show you how to shoot.
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Damn!. This drinkin sure makes you feel like going with no time to hide from anyone watching.
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darb

Well-Known Member
The trouble too , is, we all have a bit of it in i us ... i've certainly cut some donuts in my time. The problem is when, where, and infront of who.

A gravel pit out the back of somewhere with noone around, sure. Right next to 300 other campers, or on sensitive grassy ground, or anywhere where there's a negative affect on others, even visually - then no.
 

rogerazz

4x4 Earth Contributer
Me to, but away from people who want just to have quiet time camping. I can sure tell some stories over the years, however it was just us on our own and if anyone got hurt, that was our problem.
 
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