This is my consideration. Will the vehicle fail in other areas not accounted for in the GVM upgrade if running with these weights. At the end of the day the weight I can't do anything about, its just if I can get away with a DMAX (more comfortable, half the price and available) or a cruiser.
Payload and GVM Upgrades
- Thread starter Nick4321
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- dmax gvm landcrusier payload
cam04
Well-Known Member
Absolutely correct. Everything you carry comes off the payload allowance. If you have half left you’re doing very well.
All cars are designed to carry a certain load with a little more in reserve. Unfortunately there are plenty of owners who do not pay any attention to how it is distributed.
In a discussion on the Caravaners Forum a few years ago, someone posted a photo of a weight distribution chart for one of the popular utes. It had vertical lines drawn along its full length with the percentage of the load written in each section. If every owner followed a chart like that, they would have to try very hard to break anything.
Take the bent chassis problem for example. I watched a Ford tow truck bend its chassis badly in front of about 25,000 cheering people at the Sydney Showground speedway in the mid 1960s.
That's the second time in a week or so that I have accidently posted a reply before I had finished it. I must be getting too old.
That tow truck was trying to separate three stock cars that were half on top of each other. The driver made the mistake of running the cable on the jib down to one of the car's. That jib is a lever and when he started pulling, it levered the front wheels up into the air resulting in a badly bent chassis.
Getting back to todays utes, the distance from the rear axle to the rear end of the car or tow ball is also a lever. When you load it up with an excessive amount of weight, the rear end gets pushed down and the front end is lifted up. The further back the load is, the worse it gets. That is when owners rush off to buy air bags or stiffer springs to lift it up again.
They also forget, or did not know in the first place, that weight is just a measure of the pull of gravity. You can not buy a piece of weight.
All the things you can buy though have material in them which is known as mass and when mass falls, it builds up momentum and does not want to stop. This means all the load behind the axle falls when the rear wheels drop into a hole in the road. A split second later the wheels rise up again out of the hole and the axle housing, wheel studs and the end of the chassis is hit with a downward force that can be far in excess of the downward forces that were on those parts when the car was stationary or running on a smooth road.
To make matters worse, those forces increase by the square of the car's speed. In other words, if you drive through a hole at say the edge of a cattle grid at 80 ks per hour, the forces going up into you car would be 16 times higher than they would have been at 20 kph.
Car's can be fully loaded without sagging but the load has to be properly distributed. Taking my single cab Hilux for example. I used to take loads of scrap metal to a One Steel depot for a church over a twelve year period. On one load, I had hundreds of small pieces that filled the tray and the rear springs were lower than usual. I knew the car was going to be heavier than most of my loads so I put most of it at the front of the tray then I drove it onto the level floor of my garage and put a spirit level onto tray. It was slopping very slightly down hill to the front. When my wife and I drove it onto One Steel's weigh bridge, it was right on the car's maximum capacity.
You can load these utes to their maximum and they can be right on whatever angle the manufacturer intended but not many end up like that. With most families, the result is too much down the back and not enough in the seats.
Years ago I asked a Toyota salesman at the dealer that i was working for about interior loads. He said he was told during a Toyota training course that each seat should have the weight of an average Australian man in it if the car is fully loaded. The average male weight at that time was 87 kg.
Car's have to be designed that way because huge numbers of them, particularly utes, are going to carry five workmen in many different fields.
If you want to see another Ford tow truck bend it's chassis then look up, "Land Rover Discovery destroys tow truck " on U Tube.
That tow truck was trying to separate three stock cars that were half on top of each other. The driver made the mistake of running the cable on the jib down to one of the car's. That jib is a lever and when he started pulling, it levered the front wheels up into the air resulting in a badly bent chassis.
Getting back to todays utes, the distance from the rear axle to the rear end of the car or tow ball is also a lever. When you load it up with an excessive amount of weight, the rear end gets pushed down and the front end is lifted up. The further back the load is, the worse it gets. That is when owners rush off to buy air bags or stiffer springs to lift it up again.
They also forget, or did not know in the first place, that weight is just a measure of the pull of gravity. You can not buy a piece of weight.
All the things you can buy though have material in them which is known as mass and when mass falls, it builds up momentum and does not want to stop. This means all the load behind the axle falls when the rear wheels drop into a hole in the road. A split second later the wheels rise up again out of the hole and the axle housing, wheel studs and the end of the chassis is hit with a downward force that can be far in excess of the downward forces that were on those parts when the car was stationary or running on a smooth road.
To make matters worse, those forces increase by the square of the car's speed. In other words, if you drive through a hole at say the edge of a cattle grid at 80 ks per hour, the forces going up into you car would be 16 times higher than they would have been at 20 kph.
Car's can be fully loaded without sagging but the load has to be properly distributed. Taking my single cab Hilux for example. I used to take loads of scrap metal to a One Steel depot for a church over a twelve year period. On one load, I had hundreds of small pieces that filled the tray and the rear springs were lower than usual. I knew the car was going to be heavier than most of my loads so I put most of it at the front of the tray then I drove it onto the level floor of my garage and put a spirit level onto tray. It was slopping very slightly down hill to the front. When my wife and I drove it onto One Steel's weigh bridge, it was right on the car's maximum capacity.
You can load these utes to their maximum and they can be right on whatever angle the manufacturer intended but not many end up like that. With most families, the result is too much down the back and not enough in the seats.
Years ago I asked a Toyota salesman at the dealer that i was working for about interior loads. He said he was told during a Toyota training course that each seat should have the weight of an average Australian man in it if the car is fully loaded. The average male weight at that time was 87 kg.
Car's have to be designed that way because huge numbers of them, particularly utes, are going to carry five workmen in many different fields.
If you want to see another Ford tow truck bend it's chassis then look up, "Land Rover Discovery destroys tow truck " on U Tube.
discomatt
Well-Known Member
I saw a YouTube clip the other day where a 7C snapped the rear diff right next to the spring on the drivers side, diff housing just tore in half so it just goes to show that just because you have a GVM upgrade it doesn’t make the car stronger and something will always give if pushed past it’s design parameters with any 4wd
Albynsw
Well-Known Member
I think all this negative talk is not helpful to the OP so lets keep it in perspective.
He proposes to drive short periods on sealed and formed roads fully loaded. He doesnt have an overloaded tray with all the weight in the arse together with a heavy ball weight banging around the bush like a madman
The fact he is asking the question shows he’s is aware and sympathetic to the issue at hand.
My take is that the 70 series would be more suitable as it is a heavier duty vehicle but if that isn’t an option the other medium duty options will still do what he is asking of it
He proposes to drive short periods on sealed and formed roads fully loaded. He doesnt have an overloaded tray with all the weight in the arse together with a heavy ball weight banging around the bush like a madman
The fact he is asking the question shows he’s is aware and sympathetic to the issue at hand.
My take is that the 70 series would be more suitable as it is a heavier duty vehicle but if that isn’t an option the other medium duty options will still do what he is asking of it
Alby, I think the OP is just going to have to get used to threads being hijacked to how bad Toyota Land Cruisers are, and how good Land Rovers are. It's just the way it is on Earth.
Having confirmed the operating conditions is there anything preventing you from using a trailer with the DMAX? Seems the most logical solution offered here so far. Not sure if I missed something.
Alby it just wouldn't be an earth thread without the obligatory Landrover and Toyota or mines bigger than yours thread jack.
Alby it just wouldn't be an earth thread without the obligatory Landrover and Toyota or mines bigger than yours thread jack.
Albynsw
Well-Known Member
Pre rego is the easiest and cheapest but post rego still only costs about $1500 to $1800 more. I have had it done both ways. My first dual cab 79 was one of the first into the country so none of the aftermarket suppliers had even seen one to start manufacturing parts. Lovells used my ute to do their R&D for suspension upgrade and gave me a bit of a discount as a result so I had no choice but to have it done post rego. My current 79 I had the kit installed pre rego
Cost is around 5k
Nick.
You might be able to get some useful information by ringing Heasman Steering and Suspension in Sydney even if you don't live anywhere them. They have been in business since 1954 and have worked on everything from trucks to street and road racing cars. They do GVM upgrades.
You might be able to get some useful information by ringing Heasman Steering and Suspension in Sydney even if you don't live anywhere them. They have been in business since 1954 and have worked on everything from trucks to street and road racing cars. They do GVM upgrades.
Beever
Active Member
I’d talk to the Lovell gvm upgrade people they do a few different upgrades for Dmax s
worth a look. As a spraying contractor your going to ask any vehicular. Lovell s , They seem very thorough
discomatt
Well-Known Member
Are you for real??
All I pointed out is that any and all cars need to be used in a sensible manner or they can and will fail, nothing to do with LR or Toyota
Un friggin believable