Nissan Patrol vs. Toyota Land cruiser 70 series, axles and frame?

Marcus_H

New Member
Hello,

i found this threat about the Patrol 4.2 Pickup here:

http://www.4x4earth.com.au/forum/my-4wd/16961-patrol-4-2td-dx-patrol-ute-2007-a.html

this is still a very rare vehicle here in Germany so i have some questions about it and maybe you can help me.

Obviously this truck is pretty close to the Toyota HDJ70 series, which is available here in germany but only at very high pices, because it is not officially imported, while the nissan was available, but only with coil springs and the smaller engine, but still, it is much much cheaper.

Is the nissan comparable in terms of axle and frame dimension? And general toughness?

Does anyone know the height and width of the frame rails in the mid section? Toyota has frame rails which are 145mm in height and 55mm in width, so not too big but they use 3-4mm thick steele which makes the frame quite sturdy. I like to know how the nissan compares to that and i guess since you guys in australia are really using your trucks in tough conditions, you might know about this the best.

Greetings!

Marcus
 

phs

Well-Known Member
Unless you plan on getting a lot more power than std . The hdj70 will be fine. the cruisers tent to deal with loads better, The Nissan td4.2 is a good motor but a fair smoke machine with average economy.

When u say smaller motor is the HDJ70 there not a 1hd fte ?

The LSD is average and wear quick in the cruisers but install an elocker and problem solved.
and don't think that just because it is a patrol diff it will last forever as there lsd do eventually wear out too.

I Run a 1vd fte motor ( v8 TD ) all the same driveline gear as a HDJ7* never missed a beat, the cruisers had a some what of a bad reputation for weak drivetrains but that was the HZJ and some earlier series not the HDJ or VDJ, the HDJ 80s had a weak input shaft gearbox issue but that was fixed prior to being put into the 70 series

Both good, Given the availability issues I would look at what is in the best condition available to you
 
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Marcus_H

New Member
Ok interesting, bally wrote he think the Patrol got the stronger axles, you phs wrote that the Toyota handles the heavy loads better ..?

The toughness of the engine is not the bigger problem here, there are carshops all over the country, not an issue.

There are no options either, the patrol is always the 3.0 td, the 7series always the hzj. Of course the hzj is the better engine for work, more displacement, simpler design, but its also less powerfull and just outdatet for this country.

But axles and frames are something that can be hardly improved much, so if the land cruiser handley more load bettr, does he use the stronger axles and frame or not?

Greetings
 

phs

Well-Known Member
Sorry originally I thought you were asking about cab chassis models, As they do cope better with loads than the patrols.

As for your 70 series I take it to are talking about HZJ 70 ? Not HDJ 70

In that case I'd think the patrol would win hands down. Hzj70s are good but gearboxs and diffs have been known to give up at times .

I'm not a fan of the ZD30 ( 3lt patrol turbo diesel ) but it's got more power than a 1hz Thow the 1hz is probably the most reliable motor ever built

Maybe post a photo and some specs of the cruiser so people can give u better feedback as Australia gets a lot of 70 series parts that others don't so its hard to comment on ones from germany as they could be different
 
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Marcus_H

New Member
Hello,

well you can get the V8 turbo diesel in the 70 series as well, you can even get the turbo diesel from the bigger Land Cruiser 100 (this suv which was built from 1999-2008), but it's all hell of expensive.

But do the axles and frames really vary in their dimensions?

I guess at least the frames are always the same? This is pretty important because a friend of mine cracked his hilux frame, so i am really looking for a tougher frame. Best would be the g-wagon frame, it is 155x75x3, so way bigger than the toyota, but it's even more expensive and the engines are either pretty complex or just weak as ****.

Greetings
 

phs

Well-Known Member
Hello,

well you can get the V8 turbo diesel in the 70 series as well, you can even get the turbo diesel from the bigger Land Cruiser 100 (this suv which was built from 1999-2008), but it's all hell of expensive.

But do the axles and frames really vary in their dimensions?

I guess at least the frames are always the same? This is pretty important because a friend of mine cracked his hilux frame, so i am really looking for a tougher frame. Best would be the g-wagon frame, it is 155x75x3, so way bigger than the toyota, but it's even more expensive and the engines are either pretty complex or just weak as ****.

Greetings


You'd need to post the land cruiser model details for people to help. Other wise we are commenting on somthing we may not even have here specifically or anything even close to the duty specs
Not sure about current international toyotas but i do know some older models had been made heavy duty specifically for Australia for instance the BJ70 vs the bundera .

I can add that I have never heard of any frame or axel issue with any of the current australian 70 series range or any of the previous 70 models, but they are targeted towards our mining industries so here they are built heavy duty not sure if they are constructed the same world wide .
 
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Marcus_H

New Member
Well want to put a cabin on the rear end, which is not ideal for the frame of course, but i want it to be removable so the car fitts in the normal traffic and parking houses, otherwise i would just use a truck.

I know people who did this with a Hilux and the frame broke, but those Hiluxes got load up to a GVW of 3500Kg, which seemed to much for anyway since the hilux is signifficantly lighter built as the land cruiser/patrol.

The Range of LC's is HZJ 78/79 i don't know if there are different frame or axles within those models? This is the case for the g-wagon, which can be built with normal or heavy axles and there are even special frames for armoured versions up to 5tons.

You have a VDJ79 R linked in your post - what's the "R" standing for? Does the VDJ 79 differ from the HZJ 79 in terms of frame/axles? I thought the only difference was the engine and transmission (and of course some inner parts of the axle because of the higher torque).

Greetings
 

phs

Well-Known Member
Yes the 79 is a super long wheel base the 78 ( wagon ) is a long wheel base

HZJ79 sold in Australia see if you can cross reference the data to ones where you are to see if they are the same build .

Length
5075 (mm) Length of a vehicle at its longest point.
Width
1690 (mm) Width of a vehicle at its widest point (excluding mirrors).
Height
1970 (mm) Height of a vehicle at its highest point.
Wheelbase
3180 (mm) The distance between the centres of the front and rear wheels.
Track Front
1435 (mm) Distance between a vehicle's front wheels taken from the centre of the tyres.
Track Rear
1420 (mm) Distance between a vehicle's rear wheels taken from the centre of the tyres.
Tare Mass
1885 (kg) Total weight of a vehicle with standard equipment and unoccupied
Kerb Weight
2030 (kg) Total weight of a vehicle with standard equipment and unoccupied
Gross Vehicle Mass
3200 (kg) Maximum laden mass of a vehicle.
Gross Combination Mass
6350 (kg) The total of the gross weight and braked towing capacity of a vehicle, measured in kgs.
Payload
1170 (kg) The weight that can be loaded onto a vehicle for transportation. May include occupants
Towing Capacity (braked)
3500 (kg) Towing capacity if the trailer has its own braking system.
Towing Capacity (Unbraked)
750 (kg) Towing capacity if the trailer is unbraked.
 

Marcus_H

New Member
Yeah those are the exact same numbers. You can legally increase the GVW over here up to 3.900Kg with stronger leaf springs.

For the patrol there are no such options neither was the leaf spring version ever sold. But this does not mean of course it is not as tough right?

The market für those toyotas is extremely small, i guess the people who import and modify the land cruiser picked him because back then (middle 90's, this is when toyota stopped selling the 70 series here by themselves) the 1HZ engine was the best way to go.
The coil spring version of the Patrol was sold by nissan itself since 2009, which is why there are so many more and much cheaper.
 

hulsty

Active Member
Patrol has a stromger driveline then the cruiser. Much much stronger diffs and axle/cv's


Not really, Patrols have stronger front diff center and slighty stronger CV's thats about it. Cruisers have better design front end (bearings and geometry)
 

hulsty

Active Member
Which model Patrol are you looking at ? Coil or Leaf rear ends? Coil rear end patrols are not really suited to carrying continuous heavy loads, they have a habit of bending the coil towers and potentially cracking the chassis if not taken care off. Better off with the leaf rear end for heavy loads. Leaf rear is also full floating and has a larger ring gear on the diff.

HZJ79 cruiser is a good solid work horse, bit slow, BIGGEST problem is the gearbox, they are fitted with the R151F which is a hilux gearbox. The HDJ79 and v8 models have the much stronger and bigger H151 or 150 (cant remember which) gearbox. This can be swapped into the HZJ79.
 

Marcus_H

New Member
Damn i thought all patrol rear axles where the same and i could increase the coil spring suspension for the same load as the leaf spring version?

I also thought any patrol had full floater axles :(

So is the patrol frame weaker as well or is it only because of the different kind of stress release into the frame that comes with coil springs?
 

hulsty

Active Member
I am not sure on the frame dimensions and specifications. Your market may be different, check you local vehicles they may be coiled with the full float diff.

There have been reports of various GU patrols cracking chassis, may/may not be attributed to the lead spring version being used with air bags.

GU leaf cab chassis crack in chassis @ ExplorOz Forum

Have not seen as prevalent issue with Landcruiser chassis wise.
 

phs

Well-Known Member
Good info there hustly

Just make sure the H series box has the upgraded input shaft as it's is definetly a weak point, fairly sure it was only the 80 series boxs that had the bad input shafts
 

Batts88

Well-Known Member
I am not sure on the frame dimensions and specifications. Your market may be different, check you local vehicles they may be coiled with the full float diff.

There have been reports of various GU patrols cracking chassis, may/may not be attributed to the lead spring version being used with air bags.

GU leaf cab chassis crack in chassis @ ExplorOz Forum

Have not seen as prevalent issue with Landcruiser chassis wise.
Is that patrol a stock tray back ute or has it been modified it just looks like the rear diff is closer to the back of the cab than a stock tray back ute. And if I'm not wrong aren't the rear leaf spring mounts somewhere around 300mm or 450mm behind the cab there are no mounts in the pic unless they have been cut off just looks a bit odd but I could be wrong.
 

Marcus_H

New Member
Hmm sounds like the Patrol frame might really be a weakpoint compared to the J7.

Guess i have to measure one by myself next time i get my hands on it. Of course the outside measurements are only one indicator for frame strenght, but what else to do?

145x55 is not even that big, i guess the land cruiser really makes up for it with the 4mm material thickness.

I hope nissan does not use 2mm thin metal like Land Rover on the Defender. (then again, the defender features way bigger rails wit 185x80mm dimensions, so this may make up for the thin metal)
 

hulsty

Active Member
Its very hard to compare the chassis them selves, biggest influencing factors are the section height and material and any stupid design elements. Like dual cab Mitsubishi Tritons have a large hole in the chassis in a stupid spot, they reguarly bend there.
 
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