New Fraser Backpacker fatality

kboukes

New Member
Today, a troopie carrying 8 rolled over near Indian head after hitting a washout. One Japanese tourist is dead thus far.

When will these guys learn??

Should you hold the rental companies accountable for the safety message?

Should you need to do a day course on 4x4 in order to be approved for a 4x4 permit on Fraser?... to explain things like washouts, loaded veichles being top heavy etc...

Its a catch 22, If you crack down on the 4x4 rental process less people will go to Fraser and the economy of the island will suffer... on the other hand, if you leave it rollovers continue and people also continue to lose their lives...
 

daweclan

New Member
Today, a troopie carrying 8 rolled over near Indian head after hitting a washout. One Japanese tourist is dead thus far.

When will these guys learn??

Should you hold the rental companies accountable for the safety message?

Should you need to do a day course on 4x4 in order to be approved for a 4x4 permit on Fraser?... to explain things like washouts, loaded veichles being top heavy etc...

Its a catch 22, If you crack down on the 4x4 rental process less people will go to Fraser and the economy of the island will suffer... on the other hand, if you leave it rollovers continue and people also continue to lose their lives...
Its a sad thing to happen. I think there should be a day or half dasy coarse for fraser,alot is sand and beach driving where speed plays a big part,People should be taught of the hazzards with sand!!!! Its a little different hiring a forby to do a track or coarse as the speed is so much lower.It will keep happening if unexperienced drivers do beaches.
 

teza h

Well-Known Member
Yes I belive the rental companies should be held accountable..This has been going on for far too long.
When they kill some Ozies the government might act then.The sunshine coast back pacer 4x4 rental industry is a hopeless joke.
 

Quozie

4x4 Earth Contributer
Too right we should hold the 4x4 hire company responsible to some degree. We had a trip today and some of the guys here in Hervey Bay are familiar with the little information given by "some" 4x4 hire companies. Here it goes, While your on the Island use 4WD (H) if you get stuck, put in 4WD (L), when you get out put it back into 4WD (H) and go for it. While you're on the mainland put it in 2WD.
Others may offer a video for the driver to watch of what to do. At the end of it all, 8 passengers in "what looked to be" an 80 series, says that each seat was full. My question now is "WHERE THE HELL WAS THEIR LUGGAGE?" Let me guess, On the damn roof, 8 (backpacker) adults, away for at least the weekend, they're called backpackers for a reason, each one of them would have had their luggage loaded up top. They should have had max of 6 people and use the rear luggage area for thier gear. This will be yet again, another means to attack us as 4wd owners/operators who do the right thing, have had more than a video to show us what, and what not, to do. I say, limit the load, check their weight and hold the companies accountable if they are over loaded.
 
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kboukes

New Member
yeah, the top heavy thing would be huge in those hire fourbys!

Its bad enough in my Disco and thats got no luggage on the roof!
 

kruzaman

Member
All so true. some mining companies have vehicles that only have two wheel drive and low range 4wd as to limit the top speed of vehicles when off road. This maybe an option they could adopt. lets face it the hire companies will also suffer if they keep murdering tourists.
Kruzaman
 

Patriot

Administrator
Yeah it is a real tragedy. I was talking to a mate recently who went up there and he had very little experience. I wonder what there is that we could do. How many tour operators are up there?

James
 

KDA

New Member
ive only just got back into sydney from a holiday up at Hervey bay where we spent the day on fraser island for the first time, before i left i asked people on this site for info on driving on fraser and one of the points given was to stay away from the hired troop carriers as they were most likely tourists and new to driving on sand.

Plenty of 4x4s like those we came across seem to keep driving as if they were still back on the mainland, even the californian tourist i pulled out didnt seem to have much of a clue of how to get out of a simply bogging or how to drive on the sand.

Q: what info do tourists hiring 4x4s get about conditions or how to drive on sand?

A half day course would be ideal but what about the people who hire and just want to go for a day? I found that the only information i got was the information i looked for either forums or the guy i bought the permit off. Is there a hand out with dangers on the islands (eg. wash outs) and what to do when you come across this situation? something similar to a emergency procedure card you get on and airplane?
 

goldrush

Moderator
Too right we should hold the 4x4 hire company responsible to some degree. We had a trip today and some of the guys here in Hervey Bay are familiar with the little information given by "some" 4x4 hire companies. Here it goes, While your on the Island use 4WD (H) if you get stuck, put in 4WD (L), when you get out put it back into 4WD (H) and go for it. While you're on the mainland put it in 2WD.
Others may offer a video for the driver to watch of what to do. At the end of it all, 8 passengers in "what looked to be" an 80 series, says that each seat was full. My question now is "WHERE THE HELL WAS THEIR LUGGAGE?" Let me guess, On the damn roof, 8 (backpacker) adults, away for at least the weekend, they're called backpackers for a reason, each one of them would have had their luggage loaded up top. They should have had max of 6 people and use the rear luggage area for thier gear. This will be yet again, another means to attack us as 4wd owners/operators who do the right thing, have had more than a video to show us what, and what not, to do. I say, limit the load, check their weight and hold the companies accountable if they are over loaded.

Too right Quozie. Maybe charging one of the hire operators with negligence could bring the whole industry into line. More training is needed before letting people take these vehicles onto the beach. The fatal accidents will continue on a regular basis until something is done. Unfortunately these accidents bring our whole pastime into disrepute.
 

kboukes

New Member
an extreme measure would be to introduce a 4x4 off road license.. that way you know everyone has had some training...
 

BILLBY

New Member
darwins law

sad stuff but the stupid die so the ones with self preservation live.

how do you hold back youth, they live on the edge ,I did ,I saw things that scared me and said no while some were killed ,those during moments of madness some I knew at school doing stuff that seemed harmless till that oh shit moment .

okay. I have stepped out there with my opinion I accept that,and some things are in bad taste world wars took generations of our brothers away from us and the road toll is above the all time low off 1947 by only by 120 people.

How do we except a company to manage all comers with regard to safety I appreciate the duty of care stuff ,but where do we as Individuals be responsible for ourselves in the eyes of the law.

I drive ,I drive to the conditions as I find them , as a trainer of 4wd I can only impart my experience ,but when ignored why would I be held responsible when I have to sign off the foreign tourist that I cannot supervise or the local mug punter
:cool:1firefighter63
 

Quozie

4x4 Earth Contributer
sad stuff but the stupid die so the ones with self preservation live.

how do you hold back youth, they live on the edge ,I did ,I saw things that scared me and said no while some were killed ,those during moments of madness some I knew at school doing stuff that seemed harmless till that oh shit moment .

okay. I have stepped out there with my opinion I accept that,and some things are in bad taste world wars took generations of our brothers away from us and the road toll is above the all time low off 1947 by only by 120 people.

How do we except a company to manage all comers with regard to safety I appreciate the duty of care stuff ,but where do we as Individuals be responsible for ourselves in the eyes of the law.

I drive ,I drive to the conditions as I find them , as a trainer of 4wd I can only impart my experience ,but when ignored why would I be held responsible when I have to sign off the foreign tourist that I cannot supervise or the local mug punter
:cool:1firefighter63

Hey firefighter....... I agree, We do (or at least did) stupid things, I appreciate that sometime turkeys get behind the wheel and do thing to jeopardise themselves and others. Being from Hervey Bay, I have seen too often these Troopies overloaded so much that they actually fall over on round abouts here on the mainland. Yes training would be a way of at least educating the tourists of the dangers. The operators of these hire companies take in convoy many of these tourists back to the shop to start them on their way, so they are aware of how much gear is loaded. They need to remove the storage areas that raise their roof top by nearly 3 feet and remove the back seats to bring down the centre of gravity. At least make the vehicles safer to use. Then education, then it's the drivers responsibility to do his/her part.
 

Grey Ghost

5th Annual Victorian Gathering member
All so true. some mining companies have vehicles that only have two wheel drive and low range 4wd as to limit the top speed of vehicles when off road. This maybe an option they could adopt. lets face it the hire companies will also suffer if they keep murdering tourists.
Kruzaman
Thats a damn good idea Kruzaman.
And what is the speed limit there? 80 km/h? maybe it should be lower so even when they get into trouble, it won't have such dire consequences....
 

croozza

Active Member
an extreme measure would be to introduce a 4x4 off road license.. that way you know everyone has had some training...

Yes that is an extreme measure, but one I don't think is nessisary, just look at the jokers on the road now days, would be the same on the sand, just because they may have a licence does not mean they will not act like a moron behind the wheel, one thing that the should be tought is to just follow what all the other 4wders are doing, so then there will be nobody driving through the surf, doing donuts, or swerving all over the beach, they should also be told that all road rules apply on the beach (which they do if you don't know), and have more police patrols.
 

Patriot

Administrator
Hey guys,

All good points. I think that one thing that we could is come up with an A4 page on tips for driving in sand. Something that details the top 10 things that we need to think about and a couple of pictures diagrams about C of G highlighting how dangerous top loading a truck is and some tips on what to do when things go pears - how do you get out of being bogged.

Generic tips - for entertainment purposes only to get around the legal liability areas, but something that would help some people.

I completely agree that a half day driving course would be the way to go, but I just don't think it will happen for a lot of people.

I would be happy to have them printed out and delivered to the tour operators - I think it would be well worthwhile if it just stops one accident.

What does everyone think?

James
 

DazzGUIV

4x4 Earth Contributer
Hey guys,

All good points. I think that one thing that we could is come up with an A4 page on tips for driving in sand. Something that details the top 10 things that we need to think about and a couple of pictures diagrams about C of G highlighting how dangerous top loading a truck is and some tips on what to do when things go pears - how do you get out of being bogged.

Generic tips - for entertainment purposes only to get around the legal liability areas, but something that would help some people.

I completely agree that a half day driving course would be the way to go, but I just don't think it will happen for a lot of people.

I would be happy to have them printed out and delivered to the tour operators - I think it would be well worthwhile if it just stops one accident.

What does everyone think?

James

Sounds like a good idea to me.

It's a hard job to ensure safety without penalising the people with the common sense to use the vehicles safely in the first place. Im sure all in the forum would not like to have to go out to do a one off driver course, or sit a driver test or safety exam because they want to fly into an area and hire a 4x4 for a week away. there is no easy line to be drawn between people who need the run down and people who dont.

A A4 sheet would be a good start - maybe a read and sign policy for the driver at the car pick up point would be useful too, as well as having it posted within the vehicle? simple any easy for all to do, and will hopefully save a couple of lives...

Cheers,

Dazz
 

Patriot

Administrator
That is what I am thinking. It is easy to come down hard on the tour operators, but you will always get those that are reckless - especially in a hire vehicle, but I am thinking about those that would do the right thing if they just knew what the right thing was.

James
 

kboukes

New Member
I think i hit 80k on Fraser... once? But then again im a stickler for safety...

(im 22 and only ever done 1 stupid thing thus far!!!:D:D)
 

kruzaman

Member
When you catch a plane you have to meet the weight requirements of that company, or choose another form of transport. the reason they put weight limits on is for safety.
The plane operator takes responsibility to make sure the plane is not over loaded why is the same not applied, truck drivers have the same responsibility. The tour operators need to make sure the vehicles that they own are not over loaded its their responsibility.
GREED OVER SAFETY!
Kruzaman
 

Blue Dog

New Member
A high and a visible police presence on the island during the main holiday periods and a low speed limit and fines for overloading and speeding, as people every where think when they leave the tarmac that no rules apply and they can carry as much as they want, go as fast as they want and it wont change with training they will still need to enforce the laws to get a result. the problem then will be the locals and regular users will then complain about the rules and fines.
 
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