New Defender, observations and opinions of the available information !

mikehzz

Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that is the number of people who bought aftermarket warranty, not cars sold. Here are the 2020 UK sales figures https://www.am-online.com/data/manufacturer-insight

It appears that fewer people buy aftermarket warranty for more reliable cars as a percentage. I guess that makes sense.
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
The 'gift that keeps giving'.

You have to ask if Land Rover even test this stuff before inflicting it on customers. It must be the 5th or 6th software update in 6 months and still not right.

If you get stuck on the Simpson Desert call the Tata Indian IT help desk and lodge a trouble ticket. LOL

 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
I certainly wouldn't let him touch my brand new car let alone stuff around with any software
mmm shut the windows , they wont shut, ah thats right turn ignition on, ah opps started it didn't mean to do that and the bumbling goes on and on
No doubt a LR tech would know all the procedures and get the job done
Why on earth would anyone stuff around with software updates knowing it was going into the dealer to get another issue looked at which I wouldn't be surprised if he created that problem as well
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
I get your point about that guy who does appear to come across as a bit of a fool Matt, but why does Land Rover push these things out to the user screen with an alarm that it needs an update. It could be something minor, or something that causes the steering and emergency brakes to stop working ( like the guy in Spain). Who would know? The instructions tell you to update with no explanation so what do you do? He did exactly as the instructions said but it didn't work. It is very clear from the video. Surely we aren't blaming owners for buggy software too.

There has been a lot of updates ( maybe 6?), do you have to go back to the dealer to get everyone installed. Surely not. If it is something presented as user-upgradable then it should be simple. It's obviously buggy or too complex.

Then there is the argument that if it is intended to be operated by people who bought a new Defender, it should be idiot proof. :D

Oh, I'd trust him to repair my vehicle more than a Land Rover dealer. He managed to follow the instructions to install a winch. The dealer supposedly made a brand new 4wd inoperable by cutting a loom while installing the same winch..
 
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a1bert

Well-Known Member
Ranger and Everest owners do their own updates with no fuss, think it can do it automatically when connected to wi-fi, bet if he had it connected to wi-fi he would not have been aware of an update as it would have already been loaded
 

cam04

Well-Known Member
Ranger and Everest owners do their own updates with no fuss, think it can do it automatically when connected to wi-fi, bet if he had it connected to wi-fi he would not have been aware of an update as it would have already been loaded
Our Subaru does it also.
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
Why does software need to be updated on the fly anyhow. If it needs to be updated before a scheduled service then it shouldn't have been installed in the first place. Have the marketing idiots taking control of engineering now?
 

cam04

Well-Known Member
Why does software need to be updated on the fly anyhow. If it needs to be updated before a scheduled service then it shouldn't have been installed in the first place. Have the marketing idiots taking control of engineering now?
Everything else we own these days does it....
Heavy machinery monitors itself and sends all the info back to a central point. The first you know an injector is faulty is in an email from Caterpillar.
It makes sense and saves money to send out programming updates remotely.
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
Makes you wonder how LR have got it so wrong:confused:

That is the frustrating part with LR, they come up with some great innovative ideas and for the most part I really like their styling but their execution seems to miss the spot somehow.
I don’t really understand how when vehicle manufacturers sublet to specialists different parts of their builds so they really shouldn’t be having these basic issues. If it was some new innovative technology or design that they improved over time that is different but the basic troubles they are experiencing should not be happening
 

G_ute

Well-Known Member
Because there are millions of lines of code and bugs are statisticaly more likely. The computer hardware improves exponentially (Moores Law) - more CPU power, more memory available, so programs dont have to be 'optimised' and just get bigger and bigger, building on the old code. Why bother streamlining code when you have lots of cheap memory/storage? And companies have tight schedules to get new models out there and dont have time to do proper full testing. So they foist it in the public and fix the bugs later.

The space shuttle ran with 400 thousand lines of code, the averge car now has 100 million lines.
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
Everything else we own these days does it....
Heavy machinery monitors itself and sends all the info back to a central point. The first you know an injector is faulty is in an email from Caterpillar.
It makes sense and saves money to send out programming updates remotely.
Monitoring and reporting data back home. No problems but updating software on the fly. Microsoft can't even do it properly without shutting everything down and usually trashing the whole system. The road is not a closed racing track. I'd rather my electronic updates tested and carried out in a controlled environment.
My belief is if it's working - leave it alone. If it's not - then why was it installed? And before you make changes did you ask if anyone really wants them.
 

cam04

Well-Known Member
Monitoring and reporting data back home. No problems but updating software on the fly. Microsoft can't even do it properly without shutting everything down and usually trashing the whole system. The road is not a closed racing track. I'd rather my electronic updates tested and carried out in a controlled environment.
My belief is if it's working - leave it alone. If it's not - then why was it installed? And before you make changes did you ask if anyone really wants them.
You get a choice. First, you don’t need to connect your car to wifi. Second, if you do, the menu system asks if you want to install them. I am sure that if you ignored all that the dealer would do the same thing next service and you’d be none the wiser. They aren’t life changing updates, from what I have seen they are changes to menu systems, nav map updates etc, they aren’t retuning the engine for more HP and less fuel usage or anything actually useful. Just the joys of having cars that run lots of tech.
 
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boobook

Well-Known Member
You get a choice. First, you don’t need to connect you car to wifi. Second, if you do, the menu system asks if you want to install them. I am sure that if you ignored all that the dealer would do the same thing next service and you’d be none the wiser. They aren’t life changing updates, from what I have seen they are changes to menu systems, nav map updates etc, they aren’t retuning the engine for more HP and less fuel usage or anything actually useful. Just the joys of having cars that run lots of tech.

The problem is that you may need to upgrade. Look at the bugs in the Defender over the last 6 months. Engine ECU out of range and failure, Automatic braking failure, Auto steering failures, reverse camera not working, surround parking not working, water depth sensor frozen, screen constantly crashing, coolant failure alarm, suspension failure alarm. These are all serious problems that should be fixed. How do you know if the next update will fix some of these or not.

Land Rover supposedly did something like a million kms of testing under all conditions, yet these bugs appear within weeks of the car's release. Either they didn't test it properly, or the software is way too complex, or both. If you look at some of the videos, even the manual doesn't know how to use some of the features.

Land Rover is out there with the tech, and the owners who buy them are pioneers in the latest and greatest. But as they say in the high tech industry, Pioneers get arrows in their backs. These are really just fit for purpose for urban drives to the supermarket at the moment. The good news is that most of the issues appear to be software so in theory, can be fixed - provided they give the code to someone other than TATA. It usually takes companies who use TATA for coding about 3 years to realise they can't untangle the spaghetti code they have, and start again from scratch. Sad but generally true.
 
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cam04

Well-Known Member
That’s just the thing. The tech it is running is 90% in other new vehicles anyway, and glitch free.
The other 10 from what I can see is window dressing and faff. Depth sensors FFS, it’s a bit late once you’re in.
Subaru owners get a spit and polish via remote control. I can understand an owner’s reticence to allow LR to fight a rearguard action via their router however. It’s looking like a shitfight they may not have the ability to make right unfortunately.
 

G_ute

Well-Known Member
Also note that a lot of the OEM suppliers can and do stuff up their parts and software. E.g. the monster called Bosch, used by just about everyone for many many subsystems. They are notorious for releasing buggy products.
But the car company has to take the rap, they choose their suppliers.
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
Every single one of those 'Car Wow' tugs of war is a waste of time. He completely ignores the tyres which are the real things under test here.

I don't understand the point.
 

CaptainBanana

Well-Known Member
Every single one of those 'Car Wow' tugs of war is a waste of time. He completely ignores the tyres which are the real things under test here.

I don't understand the point.

It's hardly a controlled test, it ignores vehicle weight, drive mode, throttle application and RPM used which directly relates torque, gear selection etc etc etc it doesn't tell you anything really
 
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