New Defender, observations and opinions of the available information !

CaptainBanana

Well-Known Member
And I had Mitsubishi treat me like a dick head, ten's of thousands or hundreds of thousands of others have been treated like crap by their automotive manufacturers as well this is not really news. I can't say Land Rover is any better or any worse than anyone else when it comes to fixing the faults but the evidence suggests that they have far more faults to begin with this seems to be accurate the world over.
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
Lets wait and see when they do the comparison with the Land Cruiser rather than make assumptions ;)
What assumptions are there? It's the same issue as before. 20" rims on such low profile tyres are not useful, which muds fit? They said it themselves. No longer the offroader they bought. That's the point.
 
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discomatt

Well-Known Member
What assumptions are there? It's the same issue as before. 20" rims on such low profile tyres are not useful, which muds fit? They said it themselves. No longer the offroader they bought. That's the point.
You keep harping on about no tire options available, I did 1 google search and found some you said they were no good, here is another google search with no effort and no time
Not saying that size is ideal but it is not the end of the world as many make out either
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
You keep harping on about no tire options available, I did 1 google search and found some you said they were no good, here is another google search with no effort and no time
Not saying that size is ideal but it is not the end of the world as many make out either
20" rims with thin walls and no real oavailability just aren't a serious off-road option, no matter how much people try to dress the situation up. I am pretty sure you have even said you went from 19 to 18" rims previously because 19" were too thin. Yeah?

Are you saying that tyre will fit without severe rubbing or suspension / panel cutting mods? As to the other cheap chinese ones put up. look at the awful review they got.
 
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CaptainBanana

Well-Known Member
What assumption is there about the 20" off road tyre availability? Where are they?
Tyre size is not so horrible, it's a big 33 inch tyre so even on a 20 inch wheel it's only .75 inch less sidewall than a 33 inch 17.
I am looking forward to seeing it hop, skip, bounce and wobble up stuff the competitors drive up.

Also I just saw my first real one in Fitzroy, based on its numbers on paper I was expecting it to look like a hummer but from the front it really doesn't look as huge as it is.
 

smitty_r51

Well-Known Member
Also I just saw my first real one in Fitzroy, based on its numbers on paper I was expecting it to look like a hummer but from the front it really doesn't look as huge as it is.
I thought the same, was surprised when I parked the pathfinder next to one... Pathfinder was bigger. Or looked it
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
Tyre size is not so horrible, it's a big 33 inch tyre so even on a 20 inch wheel it's only .75 inch less sidewall than a 33 inch 17.
SNIP
Hmm, Check your maths Captain.

The Defender wheels are 32" ( 255 / 60 R 20)

So if two rims are both 32" diameter. One wheel has 17" diameter rims and the other has 20" diameter rims. Regardless of width.

The sidewall difference is the difference between overall diameter and wheel diameter divided by 2.

The 17" sidewall height is (32 - 17)/2 = 15/2 = 7.5" or 191mm
The 20" sidewall height is (32 - 20)/2 = 12/2 = 6" or 151 mm

That's a difference of 1.5" or 40mm in sidewall height by my calculations. So let your tyres down to say 16 - 18 PSI which will take about 60mm off the sidewall height. 17" is not perfect but the more the better. Especially since the tyres are only a soft spring when pressure is lowered.

The 17" setup now has 130mm of sidewall left
The 20" setup now has 90mm of sidewall left.

Get a ruler on a table and measure 90mm and imagine your rims that close to the ground, then measure 130mm

If you could go to 33" the differences are the same, but with 12mm more sidewall for both rim sizes.

Then there is the issue of even buying that 20" inch tyre that fits in anything other than a high speed highway tyre, something that needs cutting or suspension mods, or cheap unsafe Chinese ebay tyres.

If these issues could be resolved, especially tyre availability then it certainly makes the Derender more viable. But I repeat, 20" rims for an off road vehicle is just stupid UNLESS it can take large tyres. IMHO of course. Maybe it doesn't matter to many people who are the target market.
 
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CaptainBanana

Well-Known Member
Hmm, Check your maths Captain.

So two rims are both 33" diameter. One wheel has 17" diameter rims and the other has 20" diameter rims. Regardless of width.

The sidewall difference is the difference between overall diameter and wheel diameter divided by 2.

The 17" sidewall height is (33 - 17)/2 = 16/4 = 8" or 204mm
The 20" sidewall height is (33 - 20)/2 = 13/2 = 6.5" or 162 mm

That's a difference of 1.5" in sidewall height by my calculations, and there there is the issue of even buying that 20" inch tyre that fits in anything other than a high speed highway tyre or cheap unsafe Chinese ebay tyre.
Correct 1.5 inches overall - .75 between the bottom of the rim and the ground, when you consider for example that the Triton only has a 29.5 inch tyre on a 17 inch rim the defender still has a pretty good side wall height and it's actually better than many actual off-road cars so I don't think the tyres are going to be the biggest limiting Factor for this thing.

I think it's going to be the rubbish independent suspension cranked up hard as house bricks.
 

CaptainBanana

Well-Known Member
Correct 1.5 inches overall - .75 between the bottom of the rim and the ground, when you consider for example that the Triton only has a 29.5 inch tyre on a 17 inch rim the defender still has a pretty good side wall height and it's actually better than many actual off-road cars so I don't think the tyres are going to be the biggest limiting Factor for this thing.

I think it's going to be the rubbish independent suspension cranked up hard as house bricks.
Sorry you're right it's 1.5 not 0.75 - but still more sidewall than you get on a new Triton for example
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
Yep that suspension is rubbish in your opinion, anyone who has actually owned it loves it because of its versatility and how well it works in all conditions
1607287371931.png
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
Sorry you're right it's 1.5 not 0.75 - but still more sidewall than you get on a new Triton for example
LOL probably true Captain, but I wouldn't buy a triton, and I may be wrong but there is a large range of tyres available and I *think* you can run bigger tyres without mods to the vehicle.

My point is that even 18 is a stretch, 19 is silly and 20 is unnecessary for a 4wd. Unless you can swap out the wheels for smaller ones or run large tyre sizes.

Edit. I should add that the reason I commented on this above is because of the review video where they ordered one with 18" rims specifically to do off-road tests, but ended up with the 20" rims on their 3rd defender simply because that's all that LR had in stock. They commented that they can't do the full off-road reviews now because the vehicle they got is not the one they bought.

Imagine if that happened to Joe Blogs who bought a 4wd for off-roading, not a luxury shopping trolly. Oh that's right, they would still own the first one - fighting with LR cause they don't own a youtube channel with the LR marketing department intervening.

Edit fixed a couple of typos
 
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CaptainBanana

Well-Known Member
Hmm, Check your maths Captain.

The Defender wheels are 32" ( 255 / 60 R 20)

So if two rims are both 32" diameter. One wheel has 17" diameter rims and the other has 20" diameter rims. Regardless of width.

The sidewall difference is the difference between overall diameter and wheel diameter divided by 2.

The 17" sidewall height is (32 - 17)/2 = 15/2 = 7.5" or 191mm
The 20" sidewall height is (32 - 20)/2 = 12/2 = 6" or 151 mm

That's a difference of 1.5" or 40mm in sidewall height by my calculations. So let your tyres down to say 16 - 18 PSI which will take about 60mm off the sidewall height. 17" is not perfect but the more the better. Especially since the tyres are only a soft spring when pressure is lowered.

The 17" setup now has 130mm of sidewall left
The 20" setup now has 90mm of sidewall left.

Get a ruler on a table and measure 90mm and imagine your rims that close to the ground, then measure 130mm

If you could go to 33" the differences are the same, but with 12mm more sidewall for both rim sizes.

Then there is the issue of even buying that 20" inch tyre that fits in anything other than a high speed highway tyre, something that needs cutting or suspension mods, or cheap unsafe Chinese ebay tyres.

If these issues could be resolved, especially tyre availability then it certainly makes the Derender more viable. But I repeat, 20" rims for an off road vehicle is just stupid UNLESS it can take large tyres. IMHO of course. Maybe it doesn't matter to many people who are the target market.

LOL probably true Captain, but I wouldn't buy a triton, and I may be wrong but there is a large range of tyres available and I *think* you can ruin bigger tyres without mods to the vehicle.

My point is that even 18 is a stretch, 19 is silly and 20 is un necessary for a 4wd. Unless you can swap out the wheels for smaller ones or run large tyre sizes.
Sorry I've just realised the tire size you quote of is 32 inch where is the one I used for the calculation was pulled off Matt's post which look like a 33 inch if in fact it is a 32-inch like you say then there really is very little sidewall
 

CaptainBanana

Well-Known Member
LOL probably true Captain, but I wouldn't buy a triton, and I may be wrong but there is a large range of tyres available and I *think* you can ruin bigger tyres without mods to the vehicle.

My point is that even 18 is a stretch, 19 is silly and 20 is un necessary for a 4wd. Unless you can swap out the wheels for smaller ones or run large tyre sizes.
I think it's apparent you don't have to convince me this isn't an off-road car. I just don't believe the tyres are going to be the limiting Factor with this Mercedes and Porsche competitor. I don't think anyone in a real 4WD actually believes this thing is any real competition for well-established off-road models.
 
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mikehzz

Well-Known Member
I staked a tyre out near Arkaroola a few weeks ago and the second thing after f#%k! that came to mind was that I was glad I didn't have some exotic tyres on the car. I remember buying a new car in 2008 with 17" rims and people thinking they were going to be hard to source, and they certainly were more expensive at the time. Times have changed and bigger rims are creeping in all the time. I reckon they'll change the tyres to overcome the obvious short comings. Meanwhile early adopters will just have to live with it.
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
I staked a tyre out near Arkaroola a few weeks ago and the second thing after f#%k! that came to mind was that I was glad I didn't have some exotic tyres on the car. I remember buying a new car in 2008 with 17" rims and people thinking they were going to be hard to source, and they certainly were more expensive at the time. Times have changed and bigger rims are creeping in all the time. I reckon they'll change the tyres to overcome the obvious short comings. Meanwhile early adopters will just have to live with it.
Same, in 2008 I experienced the same deal. I think that's why I am so anal about hard to get tyres. My ARB pressure gauge was reading too high, I was running around 22 PSI when I thought I was at 28 heading north into Alice Springs on the Finke Rd. The tyres took a bashing and I decided to get new tyres all round in Alice Springs before heading back over the Simpson. Olny one shop had 17" LT in my size and they were Goodyear Adventure. The most expensive, lowest milage tyres I've seen. Everything else I had to wait a week for. I think 17" is available like 16" was back then. 18's availability are like 17's then. But the sidewall is getting thinner and thinner.

An there was Rangie mate that could not buy off-road tyres for love nor money, and went 4wding once before giving up and selling it out of frustration with the punctures he got.

It will be a very long time before you can get 20" off road tyres with that profile, if ever. IMHO.
 
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boobook

Well-Known Member
Next episode. This time a lot happier ending.

Synchro should skip from 4:30. After abusing and attacking people who said the Defender uses the touch screen for setting 4wd modes. It clearly shows these guys trying different 4x4 settings including setting the ediff on the touch screen.

The 6 cyl petrol seems to go like the powers of pi$$.. No winch ( yet) though. I do like the colour.

 
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