New Defender, observations and opinions of the available information !

discomatt

discomatt

Well-Known Member
boobook said:
It's just that sort of thing that undermines confidence in a vehicle that's supposed to be rugged for remote 4wding
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Anyone who buys a LR of any model purely for remote touring or even as remote touring anywhere near the top of the requirement list would be nuts IMO.
They do all things exceptionally well but outright reliability is not one of them and due to the tech and in many cases over use of tech that is new NOT copied and tested by other manufacturers they have their achilles heel which is why most would never consider LR for remote travel or even buying a new model.
 
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boobook

Well-Known Member
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boobook

Well-Known Member
More Defender drama. Straight after picking up from one problem in a Defender with under 300 miles, it had worse problems. The first problem was "fixed" with a software update, and changing the spark plug leads around - because LR wasn't exactly sure what the problem was and if it was really fixed. This time with the touch screen and what it controls. So far it looks like it has been at the dealer for about half the time they have owned it, and over 10% of the miles it has travelled are by the dealer trying to fix it. And LR still has no idea what the problem is. LR doesn't even have spare parts to test it, they're on back order - and that's in the US.


Even the two LR fanboys who make these videos are pissed, and losing faith.

But if you own a Land Rover, It pays to own a Youtube channel to get LR's attention in the UK. If LR's engineering department was as good as the marketing department who obviously keep an eye on youtube for bad reports it would be the "worlds best 4wd" - oh yeah, it already is LOLOL - the marketing department already have that one covered.

I recall the guy in the UK who posted issues said he got a call from LR and was asked to remove the bad videos in return for getting his vehicle fixed promptly too.
 
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discomatt

discomatt

Well-Known Member
That is really crap, I hope it is one off lemon and they are unlucky but I have my doubts, first model LR normal crap....
It will be surprising if JLR are even still operating in another 5-10 years
 
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boobook

Well-Known Member
discomatt said:
That is really crap, I hope it is one off lemon and they are unlucky but I have my doubts, first model LR normal crap....
It will be surprising if JLR are even still operating in another 5-10 years
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The thing is that they have got so much right with the new Defender that it could be a fantastic 4wd. It relies on electronics and the touch screen more than any other 4wd, and has some great things as a result, but the worst fears of unreliable electronics are coming true. One fault affects everything. Even the towing electronics in that video were faulty because of the screen. :oops: Everything seems interlinked. Sheez.

I have the entire dashboard on my 4wd out at the moment while I'm reinstalling my HF and CB's. Everything still works, I can even put it in 4wd and use crawl to my surprise and I've driven it without a dashboard or instrument cluster to my local Burson's a few times. Not 1 fault code. That gives me confidence that a single fault doesn't trickle throughout the entire system.
 
discomatt

discomatt

Well-Known Member
CaptainBanana said:
Have a look how stiff those Air Springs are when they're pumped up at full height my Renault traffic has more flex than that thing.
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This is true but keep in mind the whole flex requirement is to keep wheels on the ground for no other reason than to provide traction and momentum, the traction is maintained through TC in modern 4wds therefore momentum is still maintained.
The issue with the new Defer is not flex but whether the electronics are going to be reliable which so far is not promising.
 
discomatt

discomatt

Well-Known Member
Sand driving in any modern LR is a art form that needs to be learnt and takes time, once the driver knows how to get the most from the electronics it works fine.
Keep in mind RD has no hand book, no experience in the car, no training on how to use it and the big wheel size not the smaller 18 inch rim plus he is in a car with factory fit road tires
 
CaptainBanana

CaptainBanana

Well-Known Member
discomatt said:
This is true but keep in mind the whole flex requirement is to keep wheels on the ground for no other reason than to provide traction and momentum, the traction is maintained through TC in modern 4wds therefore momentum is still maintained.
The issue with the new Defer is not flex but whether the electronics are going to be reliable which so far is not promising.
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Whilst it's traction control might very painfully drag you up Rocky tracks the car is still teetering diagonally every single time there's a bump in the road I can't see this extremely slow teetering has been that fun for long periods of time. It's a cool looking car but honestly other than taking the kids to the footy on Saturday I don't think it's going to be that much fun driving at off-road for long periods.
 
CaptainBanana

CaptainBanana

Well-Known Member
discomatt said:
Sand driving in any modern LR is a art form that needs to be learnt and takes time, once the driver knows how to get the most from the electronics it works fine.
Keep in mind RD has no hand book, no experience in the car, no training on how to use it and the big wheel size not the smaller 18 inch rim plus he is in a car with factory fit road tires
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This is all well and good but a 20-year-old Land or Patrol will just drive up and down sand dunes all day without a second thought simply by pulling the lever into four-wheel drive, you're suggesting if I buy a brand new Land Rover I have to learn how to drive through it's Electronics where most four-wheel drives just work - again it's a cool looking car but honest to god if I see one off-road I'm going to fall over.
 
discomatt

discomatt

Well-Known Member
CaptainBanana said:
Whilst it's traction control might very painfully drag you up Rocky tracks the car is still teetering diagonally every single time there's a bump in the road I can't see this extremely slow teetering has been that fun for long periods of time. It's a cool looking car but honestly other than taking the kids to the footy on Saturday I don't think it's going to be that much fun driving at off-road for long periods.
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I beg to differ on that, I have spent quite a few days and plenty of hours off road in my D4 and it is an absolute pleasure to drive although I still prefer the old bus for really hard stuff but that is more of a risk financially that taints that preference
 
Bomber2012

Bomber2012

Well-Known Member
If this is the future of 4WD we are in trouble , to much tech and how unstable did it look on the dirt .
Its admirable that LR are developing future tech but certainly not a vehicle for remote Australian driving .
 
CaptainBanana

CaptainBanana

Well-Known Member
Bomber2012 said:
If this is the future of 4WD we are in trouble , to much tech and how unstable did it look on the dirt .
Its admirable that LR are developing future tech but certainly not a vehicle for remote Australian driving .
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Anyone who's ever had a decent wheel lift knows how unsettling it can feel could you imagine doing 8 hours a day of it?
 
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boobook

Well-Known Member
CaptainBanana said:
Anyone who's ever had a decent wheel lift knows how unsettling it can feel could you imagine doing 8 hours a day of it?
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I've been keeping an eye on the Defender videos on this exact issue. Rocking back and forth, and dropping a wheel a foot or more is a hairy experience even if it only happens occasionally. You don't know where the wheel is going, and what is under it. It's sphincter tightening stuff when it doesn't need to be. There are lots of defender videos where the suspension travel looks like it's less than about 25mm, especially in the front. The Defender spends a lot of time on 3 or even 2 wheels and either people don't know how to use the traction control or it isn't that flash which doesn't help the situation.

Maybe the driver would get used to it, and it is a good way to ensure your family never comes 4wding again, it is bad for the driver, but it would be hell for passengers. This is something that Nissan has done really well on the Y62 independent suspension. In comparison to the Defender, it keeps its feet really solidly planted on the ground. I can only guess it's because the air suspension uses up all the suspension travel. That's a fail IMHO. Give me good ol reliable springs.

Take a look at a Y62 in similar situations, for independent suspension, it's in a different league.
 
CaptainBanana

CaptainBanana

Well-Known Member
It uses air Springs and they need to be pumped up hard to increase the ride height so whilst it's comfortable on the road at low height it appears to be less flexible than a house brick at full Height. I don't see how this is supposed to be superior to any coil spring car made by any other manufacturer. Basically by making it the most comfortable car on road they've had to over complicate every other aspect of it fraction management just to make it still usable off road.
 
discomatt

discomatt

Well-Known Member
If my Disco 1 lifts a wheel the car is already on very tricky ground and some extreme angles, if it is more then 1 foot off the ground it starts to feel unsettling it it is 2 feet off the ground the seat covers start to get sucked in....
In the D4 if wheel is 1 foot off the ground you hardly notice, if its 2 feet off the ground it starts to feel unsettled, 3 feet and the seat covers disappear.
I love it when people put forward opinions when they have absolutely no experience with the car and make assumptions from a screen.
Ask anyone on any disco 3 or 4 forum how capable the air suspension and electronics are and it is very different to the opinions of none initiated ;)
 
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