dno67
Well-Known Member
Don't exclude the old ones.. lol
If you want to be technical, an AWD with off road capability. Hows that ?
Runs and hides..
New Defender, observations and opinions of the available information !
- Thread starter Bomber2012
- Start date
If you want to be technical, an AWD with off road capability. Hows that ?
Runs and hides..
I have high clearance, portals, front and rear diff locks but no low range just low gearing - so I am not a 4wd - oh yes I am and only got 21" tyres as well.
As noted on this forum, there may be several definitions of 4WD vs AWD, but what they all seem to have in common is that a mechanical centre diff that locks is a 4wd and open diff with a clutch or other electronic aid to transfer the torque is AWD.
Maybe I am being pedantic, but so is Land Rover on the same basis. They refer to the Defender as an All Wheel Drive, not 4WD anywhere near ordering or configuring pages. Check out the LR website. Also there is no where that I can see where LR claim to have diff locks, that's what started this whole thing, how the diff work. Happy to be proven wrong on this but I definitely can not find any reference to any diff locks at all.
The 200 has a manually selectable diff lock as I am sure the D4 has. No argument. But the Defender doesn't as far as I can determine. That's why LR call it an All Wheel Drive.
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Maybe it is worth a poll or separate thread on what is the difference between an AWD and a 4WD, I am sure there are lots already.
But why does Land Rover refer to the Defender as an All-Wheel drive? Because it is apparently - based on almost every normal definition, including LR's.
If people don't like that definition. They should take it up with LR.
But why does Land Rover refer to the Defender as an All-Wheel drive? Because it is apparently - based on almost every normal definition, including LR's.
If people don't like that definition. They should take it up with LR.
I think you've gone nutty with cabin fever....
discomatt
Well-Known Member
No selectable diff lock in a Disco 4, on certain terrain response setting it automatically locks and unlocks as required.
I guess my sublimely capable tow vehicle is a all wheel drive, with no diff lock, still just as capable when the going gets tough as your 4wd with a selectable diff lock 4wd so who cares, love what you drive and enjoy it
From the Land Rover glossary -
4WD-
Land Rover utilises full time 4x4 systems which provide the greatest available torque to the wheels with the most grip. Land Rover 4x4 systems ensure optimum performance, both on and off road, whatever the surface or conditions.
Twin speed low range gearbox with centre e-diff-
A two-speed transfer case with permanent four-wheel drive and a 50:50 torque split. An electronically controlled multi-plate clutch in the center differential distributes torque between the front and rear axles; up to 100 percent can be channeled to either axle in extreme conditions, electronic traction-control system further contributes to capability. The transfer case offers selectable low- and high-range, with shift on the move capability at up to 37 mph. Low-range ratio is 2.93:1, providing an extremely low crawl speed for off-road terrain or for towing heavy trailers.
Active locking rear differential-
By monitoring vehicle and terrain characteristics, the Active Rear Locking differential can be constantly adjusted through an computer controlled actuator mounted on the differential, ensuring power is transmitted to the wheels with most available grip. This provides improved cornering stability on road and refined traction, with limited wheelslip, off road.
This means that you can't drive a Land Rover in 2 wheel drive mode. It also means that the diffs will lock when required. The rear diff e-locker costs a bit over $1000. The only difference between a Land Rover and something else is how the diffs lock. If there's a button then it's a 4wd?
4WD-
Land Rover utilises full time 4x4 systems which provide the greatest available torque to the wheels with the most grip. Land Rover 4x4 systems ensure optimum performance, both on and off road, whatever the surface or conditions.
Twin speed low range gearbox with centre e-diff-
A two-speed transfer case with permanent four-wheel drive and a 50:50 torque split. An electronically controlled multi-plate clutch in the center differential distributes torque between the front and rear axles; up to 100 percent can be channeled to either axle in extreme conditions, electronic traction-control system further contributes to capability. The transfer case offers selectable low- and high-range, with shift on the move capability at up to 37 mph. Low-range ratio is 2.93:1, providing an extremely low crawl speed for off-road terrain or for towing heavy trailers.
Active locking rear differential-
By monitoring vehicle and terrain characteristics, the Active Rear Locking differential can be constantly adjusted through an computer controlled actuator mounted on the differential, ensuring power is transmitted to the wheels with most available grip. This provides improved cornering stability on road and refined traction, with limited wheelslip, off road.
This means that you can't drive a Land Rover in 2 wheel drive mode. It also means that the diffs will lock when required. The rear diff e-locker costs a bit over $1000. The only difference between a Land Rover and something else is how the diffs lock. If there's a button then it's a 4wd?
You seem to be making up your own definitions as you suit.
From the Cambridge Dictionary
all-wheel drive
noun [ C or U ]
a system in which a vehicle's engine supplies power to all its wheels instead of just to two, so that the vehicle can travel over very rough ground, or a vehicle that uses this system
Four Wheel Drive
noun
(also 4x4); (written abbreviation 4WD)
If a vehicle has four-wheel drive, its engine supplies power to all four wheels instead of the usual two, so that the vehicle can travel easily over difficult ground.
So you can see basically the same definition - except 4wd applies to travel over difficult ground.
Now following your logic, the first Range Rover was not a 4wd as it did not have a manual CDL (a LSD), the Range Rover from about 1989 was/is not a 4wd as they do not have a manual CDL - first a Viscous Coupling and later the current Defender system. The Disco 3, Disco 4 and equivalent Range Rover Sport are not 4wds as they do not have manual CDLs - well they are about the best offroad vehicles off the showroom floor but according to you that still does no make them a 4wd
.Constant 4wds are a type of AWD - just ones that can travel easily over difficult ground. So what if the term AWD and 4WD are used interchangeablly in this context.
You haven't listened to anything I have posted up to try and inform you. I have already explained how the new Defender owes basically nothing to the old Defender and how it is a development of the D3/D4/RRS/RR(FF) and has the same basic systems (but further developed) - none of these vehicles like the new Defender have selectable diff locks - the computers do it for you.
Time to accept these things and start thinking out side the box - and move on.
Choook
Well-Known Member
I think it is all about marketing, nothing more. For me (see profile pic) the Land Rover is a 4WD. But...............from a marketing perspective.
The Toorak and Pots Point brigade would rather have brunch and talk about their new AWD SUV than their new 4WD Wagon, because that just sounds too agricultural.
Don't Lamborghini call their system 4WD?? Pretty sure that doesn't have low range.
The Toorak and Pots Point brigade would rather have brunch and talk about their new AWD SUV than their new 4WD Wagon, because that just sounds too agricultural.
Don't Lamborghini call their system 4WD?? Pretty sure that doesn't have low range.
discomatt
Well-Known Member
Sadly this ability seems to be lost on many subjects these days, to much main stream and social media so critical thinking is almost a thing of the past
I think the opposite is true. There's more out of the box thinking going on because there's more possibilities. Main stream thought has always been stuck and difficult to progress. This is amplified and showcased to you by all the devices and platforms that have been developed by all of the out of the box thinking that is happening everywhere. Just look at the Land Rover diff locking system. Everything bad about the world seems like it's getting worse but it was far worse in the past but more hidden from view. We stand under a waterfall of non stop bullshit today that has always been there, but we were unaware of it. If someone walked across Sydney Harbour a few hundred years ago he'd be the messiah no questions asked. If he did it today there'd be endless questions about how did he do it, and he wouldn't be the messiah. If Britain had a war with Germany over a Serbian killing an Austrian duke, would thousands of Aussie guys still march through the streets wanting to go and fight Turks? Tell me that doesn't sound insane, and that's the good old days.
discomatt
Well-Known Member
^^ Good point. But social media " guides " peoples thought processes.
Have a look at the show " A social dilemma "
singularityhub.com
Have a look at the show " A social dilemma "
‘The Social Dilemma’ Will Freak You Out—But There's More to the Story
'The Social Dilemma' is a much-needed call for government regulation and for an actionable ethical reckoning within the tech industry itself.
singularityhub.com
You seem to be making up your own definitions as you suit.
From the Cambridge Dictionary
all-wheel drive
noun [ C or U ]
a system in which a vehicle's engine supplies power to all its wheels instead of just to two, so that the vehicle can travel over very rough ground, or a vehicle that uses this system
Four Wheel Drive
noun
(also 4x4); (written abbreviation 4WD)
If a vehicle has four-wheel drive, its engine supplies power to all four wheels instead of the usual two, so that the vehicle can travel easily over difficult ground.
So you can see basically the same definition - except 4wd applies to travel over difficult ground.
Now following your logic, the first Range Rover was not a 4wd as it did not have a manual CDL (a LSD), the Range Rover from about 1989 was/is not a 4wd as they do not have a manual CDL - first a Viscous Coupling and later the current Defender system. The Disco 3, Disco 4 and equivalent Range Rover Sport are not 4wds as they do not have manual CDLs - well they are about the best offroad vehicles off the showroom floor but according to you that still does no make them a 4wd
Constant 4wds are a type of AWD - just ones that can travel easily over difficult ground. So what if the term AWD and 4WD are used interchangeablly in this context.
There are plenty of definitions you can pick and choose. BUT Land Rover calls the Defender an AWD in their description for specifications.. The company that made and markets it has come to the conclusion that the Defender is only AWD, not 4wd. That matches most definitions of AWD that seem to prevail.
Can you explain why Land Rover call it an AWD, but you insist it isn't?
What started this is that there is no real description of diff locks in the Defender. As it appears there aren't any everything is automatic and electronic. For many people it is important to know if you have diffs locked and when.
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Mike, That Glossary is a general glossary across the entire LR website and is not specific to any model including the Defender. It has no specific relevance to the Defender or any other model unless referred to.
Land Rover® Glossary & Terminology - Land Rover® Australia
Find out about the technologies available within Land Rover vehicles - developed to help you make the most out of your world. Use our glossary to discover more.
Its purpose is to explain the marketing terms that the Defender has in it's spec sheet, plus it states things that are common across the whole range such as the 4wd system. And in that glossary it clearly says 4wd and 4x4, not awd. It also clearly states that the e-diff locks on the centre diff and the optional rear diff are clutch activated by the computer system when required for optional performance. A clutch is a device that joins two spinning shafts when the plates are closed. For simplicity sake, this means the diff is open when the clutch plates are open, and locked when the clutch plates are closed. How a diff gets locked is up to the manufacturer, but if they advertise an "active locking rear differential" as an option, then one assumes that the thing locks as stated. The key word is active, meaning it locks and unlocks at the whim of the computer system. The absence of a button to manually push doesn't change the fact that it's a dual range gearbox with locking differentials. BTW.......you're just trolling Land Rover tragics now, aren't you?Mike, That Glossary is a general glossary across the entire LR website and is not specific to any model including the Defender. It has no specific relevance to the Defender or any other model unless referred to.
Land Rover® Glossary & Terminology - Land Rover® Australia
Find out about the technologies available within Land Rover vehicles - developed to help you make the most out of your world. Use our glossary to discover more.www.landrover.com.au
BTW.......you're just trolling Land Rover tragics now, aren't you?
I didn't start that way Mike, but I must admit the over the top defensive reaction tangents of some has been very entertaining in the last day or so. I really wanted to dig into what happens with the system when 4wding. If LR can make it reliable it is a definite candidate for my next 4wd ( ! ) <------
There are some aspects of the Defender that are fantastic. Like the modularity. I have yet to be sold on the drivetrain system obviously. It looks too high tech with no driver control or input, and marketed as an urban offroader. Obviously, that's my current opinion, not a fact. Time will tell.
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