New Defender, observations and opinions of the available information !

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synchro

Active Member
While LRs dont tend to break CVs like some other vehicles do, it is not unknown. The issue is if a CV does go the vehicle is essentially not driveable over any great distance. Normally in most other constant 4wds you can just lock the CDL so you have drive to the rear and off you go with lots of crunching noises from the front. With a later Disco you cannot manually lock the CDL so all drive goes to the broken axle and basically no drive.

The get of jail card for the Discos (and I guess the new Defender) is the Terrain Response setting of Rock Crawl - select this and the vehicle basically becomes like a traditional beam axle 4wd - the CDL fully locks so now you have drive to the rear but the downside is that Rock Crawl also selects low range (and I think offroad height) so if you have to drive a distance on the highway to get home it will be a slow, noisy trip.

While this scenario is a rarity, if an CDL override switch was available you could remain in normal onroad mode and still drive in high range - there could only be advantages when driving on ice etc as well.
 
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boobook

Well-Known Member
So if the Defender has open diffs, including with electronically controlled clutch override. Does that make it an AWD and not a 4WD like other similar systems like Subaru, Audi, etc that use the same clutch system?


All-wheel drive cars use a drive system with a mechanism – a limited slip differential or an electronically-controlled clutch – that directs torque to where it's needed most in a bid to achieve optimum traction, while still allowing for a rotational difference between front and rear

That would explain why Land Rover smothers the description on how it works with marketing BS and does refer to all wheel drive several times. Though they do call it a 4wd in the brochure.
 
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mikehzz

Well-Known Member
Semantics, and as technology advances the lines are getting more and more blurred. Personally, I view anything with a low range box as a 4wd. For reliability, you can't beat gears that clunk together via a lever being pushed. Anything else will leave you stranded sooner or later.
 
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boobook

Well-Known Member
mikehzz said:
Semantics, and as technology advances the lines are getting more and more blurred. Personally, I view anything with a low range box as a 4wd. For reliability, you can't beat gears that clunk together via a lever being pushed. Anything else will leave you stranded sooner or later.
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On the surface, there is nothing wrong with an electronic approach versus mechanical. Eg EFI vs points on a disty. I'm the kind of person that needs to know how things work. That way I feel I can get the best of out equipment, as well as working within its limits. It does surprise me that a thing as central to 4wding such as the centre diff is surrounded by marketing gumpf and mystery. I really like parts of the new disco but having a ediff ( not e Lock) controlled automatically by a touch screen that has already demonstrated intermittent faults in the new Defender does pose questions.

Like this one - How do I get the centre diff "locked" or get traction control, when the touch screen has crashed? Apparently a common fault.
 
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synchro

Active Member
boobook said:
but having a ediff ( not e Lock) controlled automatically by a touch screen that has already demonstrated intermittent faults in the new Defender does pose questions.
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While the screens may control some functions of the vehicle, as far as the diffs (rear and CDL) are concerned there is not driver control by buttons or touch screens - the screens display what is going on, it is the ECUs that control the units. So if the screen crashes the ECUs are still controlling the CDL and Diffs.

Again no difference to D3/D4/RRS systems in the past - noting povety packs did not even have the screen.

As far as I can tell, the issue with the screen is where it is suppose to transition automatic from "a parked mode" to "vehicle moving mode" and as a result some functions that you want access to while moving is not available. I haven't seen any other issues related to the screen but I haven't looked into this in any detail.
 
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synchro

Active Member
The important thing to understand is that while the new Defender no longer follows the design philosophy of the old Defender, systems wise it continues the themes of later model Land Rovers originating from as far back as 2004 - just updated and refined so been around for a long time.
 
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boobook

Well-Known Member
So it's official, the new Defender is just an AWD, even according to Land Rover.

Interestingly Land Rover always refer to the Defender as an AWD anywhere in configuration or pricing and only ever seem to be bold enough to call it 4wd in the headline marketing pages, well away from any commitment during a customer purchase.

Why would they go to an AWD? To save $200 of cost and some weight?


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It explains why they are so secretive on how the 4wd system works. - It isn't a 4wd.

That also explains the target market.
 
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mikehzz

Well-Known Member
So a Prado must be an all wheel drive as well? I read it as it's not rear wheel drive like most of the utes which are 2WD until 4H is selected. It's got constant all wheel drive all the time, the equivalent of not having a 4H selector, just a 4L for the tough stuff. The locking of the centre diff sounds like it's under the control of the computer. I'm not a fan of having the car making choices for me.
 
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mikehzz

Well-Known Member
A car with standard 32" tyres, low range box and a lockable centre and rear diff, (by whatever means), surely must be classed as a 4wd?
 
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boobook

Well-Known Member
mikehzz said:
So a Prado must be an all wheel drive as well? I read it as it's not rear wheel drive like most of the utes which are 2WD until 4H is selected. It's got constant all wheel drive all the time, the equivalent of not having a 4H selector, just a 4L for the tough stuff. The locking of the centre diff sounds like it's under the control of the computer. I'm not a fan of having the car making choices for me.
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I don't know the Prado that well Mike, but from all the definitions I can find, if it has a mechanically locking centre diff it is classified as a 4wd, if it doesn't and forces the torque to the front or rear through electronic clutches or braking, then it would also be an AWD.
 
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boobook

Well-Known Member
mikehzz said:
A car with standard 32" tyres, low range box and a lockable centre and rear diff, (by whatever means), surely must be classed as a 4wd?
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Sure, that's what I would assume. But LR doesn't actually claim the diffs actually hard lock that I can find, they talk about sending torque to the side that has traction through electronics automatically, and they do classify it as an AWD in their literature. That's what started me looking into this. LR provides very few details on how this works outside marketing jargon that I can find. Its a classic case of baffle 'em with BS.

I am sure it works very well for what it is. But there aren't diff locks anywhere in the vehicle, and the driver has no knowledge or control from what I can see other than the Infotainment screen.
 
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mikehzz

Well-Known Member
Pat Callinan is the kiss of death for a car. He had a nice Patrol and Nissan dropped the diesel. He moves to an Amarok and the auto has no low range.
 
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synchro

Active Member
boobook said:
I don't know the Prado that well Mike, but from all the definitions I can find, if it has a mechanically locking centre diff it is classified as a 4wd, if it doesn't and forces the torque to the front or rear through electronic clutches or braking, then it would also be an AWD.
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So following your logic a 200 series is also a all wheel drive - you are being pedantic in the extreme - a Subaru is AWD but it is also Four Wheel Drive because all four wheels drive the car - same as a 200 series same as a D4. I think the real meaning is the ability of a vehicle to traverse rough ground offroad - some say low range is required but some capable offroad vehicles do not have low range just low gears.

Even following your own definitions of what is AWD vs 4WD the new Defender is 4wd as the various diff locks do completely lock lock when required.
 
Warby

Warby

Well-Known Member
It is a valid point / discussion though.. Albeit perhaps offtopic here (as is usually the case here on Earth haha)... What DOES define a 4wd vs an AWD SUV?

Low range, locking centre diff, drive to all four wheels, offroad capability..... These are all blurred lines.. Is there any such line that can be drawn?
 
dno67

dno67

Well-Known Member
Warby said:
It is a valid point / discussion though.. Albeit perhaps offtopic here (as is usually the case here on Earth haha)... What DOES define a 4wd vs an AWD SUV?

Low range, locking centre diff, drive to all four wheels, offroad capability..... These are all blurred lines.. Is there any such line that can be drawn?
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High clearance and low range.
 
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