Mansfield police again.

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
That's one of the reasons I sold the Everest! Alarms screaming at you when you have a vehicle slowing down in front of you to turn left and they have a turnout but because you are less than a metre or two from them when you pass the stupid system thinks the end of the world has arrived and slams the brakes on. Along with stupid self dipping hi beams that dip because of reflective road signs leaving you in the dark at 100 kph. These systems will no doubt improve but at the present time they're dangerous IMHO!

I hired a Ranger for a few weeks and the amount of noises the bloody thing produced drove me crazy, I felt like I was playing a pinball machine

The vehicle itself was quite ok though
 

smwhiskey

Active Member
Despite the number of hours required for a learner driver continually going up (did I see somebody mention its now 200 hours in one state?) I don't believe the quality of driving is improving. Its almost as if the learners are reaching a plateau and not progressing beyond that while they have somebody sitting in the passenger seat. Once they reach that plateau the only way to improve is to set them loose on their own. The point shouldn't be the quantity of the learning but the quality. I just don't believe thats happening in the vast majority of cases.

And I don't believe that necessarily means some sort of "Advanced Driving". It means that the learner should have as wide a range of experiences as possible. For example my 2 boys spent time behind the wheel of the 4WD on Bush tracks, sandy tracks, and beaches. They spent time on the highways and back country roads. They drove at night, in fog, in the rain and one of them even in a thunderstorm. They drove a multitude of different vehicles. Or in other words they got the widest range of experiences I could possibly give them. I wonder how many learners today only spend time cruising around their local area with maybe a bit of highway work if the family is going on holidays.

I do believe in what is known as "Defensive Driving". Back when I attended, it was a classroom only course that provided attendees with the knowledge and skills to identify potentially dangerous situations before they happen and avoid them. It seems a far more sensible option to avoid the danger than to react to it. In my opinion, if you're reacting to a skid situation (or any other dangerous situation) then you're already too late.
 

cam04

Well-Known Member
My mother in law's old boyfriend was a driving school instructor, he was without doubt one of the worst drivers I've ever seen. His car had more battle scars than a smash up derby entrant and they weren't caused by his students either.
I reckon they need to be conducted by a specialist at a race track or similar as they used to at the old Oran Park Raceway with a skid pan etc. The only trouble is however that these stupid modern vehicles will more than likely not comply with the defensive techniques. Many of them will go into low power and thumb suck mode when you attempt to do anything out of the ordinary.
Oh! by the way, I totally agree with you about the parents not teaching the kids anything advanced! For starters the kids won't listen to you and secondly most of the drivers that I've seen teaching their kids couldn't drive a suppository into place let alone a car.
We were pulling ABS and traction control fuses out of commodores at the turn of the century to get back to something we could throw around at Mt Cotton. These days half the car would have to be disabled. Might be something in that.
 

Triton14

Well-Known Member
Maybe people heading up to Mansfield need someone who has a legal vehicle to be a look out scout for the others like this young bloke :p


Just get on the radio & warn the ones with illegal mods ;)

Again if your not speeding or doing the wrong thing then you dont have nothing to worry about!
 

LongRoad2Go

Well-Known Member
I reckon they need to be conducted by a specialist at a race track or similar as they used to at the old Oran Park Raceway with a skid pan etc.
Funny you mention Oran Park - decades ago we did an advanced/defensive driver course there as part of workplace safety. Blokes brought their given work vehicles, so we had sedans, light trucks and vans. It REALLY opened some eyes regarding stopping distances and reaction times. The van driver (electrical tradie) spun the van 360 on a wet surface - he got out of it looking VERY pale and shocked by the experience. (Yes, it was full of equipment just like real life)

The day was set up like a scientific experiment: pre brief of what we're setting out to experience/prove, the actual 'experiment', then a debrief of it all, and a summary of things to take away.

A very good day, something all new drivers should do too.
 

Toyasaurus

Well-Known Member
If we are going to make our kids doing advanced/defensive driving courses we need to make sure it doesn`t go the way of the joke that high
risk work cert`s have gone.
They could not give a crap about who does what only that everyone passes the course, by any means, money money money.

They need to make the course a combination of advanced and defensive.
 

Noel Preston

Well-Known Member
We were pulling ABS and traction control fuses out of commodores at the turn of the century to get back to something we could throw around at Mt Cotton. These days half the car would have to be disabled. Might be something in that.
Do you still frequent Mt. Cotton Cam?
 

G_ute

Well-Known Member
Maybe we should not have lifetime licenses.
Every 5 years you have to do at least a basic computer-based road rules test, something anyone should be able to do in 20 minutes.
With the right controls maybe it could be done online.
Rules change, attitudes change, a test will also remind people of their responsibities.

And a full driving test for anyone who loses their licence due to an offense.

But who would vote for anyone proposing non-lifetime licenses?
 

Rusty Panels

Well-Known Member
Funny you mention Oran Park - decades ago we did an advanced/defensive driver course there as part of workplace safety. Blokes brought their given work vehicles, so we had sedans, light trucks and vans. It REALLY opened some eyes regarding stopping distances and reaction times. The van driver (electrical tradie) spun the van 360 on a wet surface - he got out of it looking VERY pale and shocked by the experience. (Yes, it was full of equipment just like real life)

The day was set up like a scientific experiment: pre brief of what we're setting out to experience/prove, the actual 'experiment', then a debrief of it all, and a summary of things to take away.

A very good day, something all new drivers should do too.
Oran Park is now a housing estate. They still fly around the place in their WRXs and Nissan Skylines though!
The advanced driving school was run by Ian Luff who ended up doing motoring bits and pieces on TV.
I used to service and repair the photo copier in the control tower at the track, it was one of the more interesting sites I used to visit.
 

LongRoad2Go

Well-Known Member
Can't see how this is going to solve the issues. People know the rules, they just choose to ignore them.
For Example: Stop Signs/Red Lights, Seat belts, speeding just to name a few.
Yep, that's for sure.

I tend to like the direct approach to crime, in this case, the car gets crushed and the driver gets heavily fined. For repeat offenders, being accommodated by Her Majesty's Motel. With the escalating prices of cars these days, and no foreseeable wage increases, losing an expensive 'fully sick Bro' car would certainly have an 'impact'. The car crusher would pay itself off in a few days!
 

cam04

Well-Known Member
Yep, that's for sure.

I tend to like the direct approach to crime, in this case, the car gets crushed and the driver gets heavily fined. For repeat offenders, being accommodated by Her Majesty's Motel. With the escalating prices of cars these days, and no foreseeable wage increases, losing an expensive 'fully sick Bro' car would certainly have an 'impact'. The car crusher would pay itself off in a few days!
I'd include the spate of rolled cars on Fraser over the Easter break, most of whom were driving along vegetated dunes at high tide. Accidents are fine, but when you do it knowingly and wilfully you deserve to cop an equal and opposite reaction. I'd be all for crushing a few and sticking them on poles to serve as a reminder to everybody else.
 

a1bert

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately most of these cars and acessories would be on Hire Purchase or such like, and if the Authorities crush the vehicles, they would hold little hope of getting their money back?
 

G_ute

Well-Known Member
I really think that regular tests (5 years is a long time) could make a difference to driver behaviour. Thats the problem, behavior.

Example test questions:
When running a red light choose the best answer:
a) I might injure or kill a driver in another car who expects the intersection to be clear
b) I might injure or kill a pedestian who thinks its safe to cross the road
c) I might lose my license and my job
d) All of the above

When should you use turn signals/indicators, choose the best answer:
a) 5 seconds before turning to inform other drivers of your intentions to turn
b) When your finger passes the turn lever while holding the steering wheel
c) Indicating is not required in Queensland
d) I am too lazy/stupid to indicate (DILLIGAF)


Obvious answers but it provides positive reinforcement. I reminder at least. People get so caught up in other 'life issues' they forget the basics behind the wheel.

Over time they forget to take driving seriously.
 

Triton14

Well-Known Member
I really think that regular tests (5 years is a long time) could make a difference to driver behaviour. Thats the problem, behavior.

Example test questions:
When running a red light choose the best answer:
a) I might injure or kill a driver in another car who expects the intersection to be clear
b) I might injure or kill a pedestian who thinks its safe to cross the road
c) I might lose my license and my job
d) All of the above

When should you use turn signals/indicators, choose the best answer:
a) 5 seconds before turning to inform other drivers of your intentions to turn
b) When your finger passes the turn lever while holding the steering wheel
c) Indicating is not required in Queensland
d) I am too lazy/stupid to indicate (DILLIGAF)


Obvious answers but it provides positive reinforcement. I reminder at least. People get so caught up in other 'life issues' they forget the basics behind the wheel.

Over time they forget to take driving seriously.
Knowing something & doing/practicing it are 2 different things.

I see plenty of people who have licences yet dont know how to drive & dont think a theoretical test will improve their driving skill or attitude on the road.

I also believe there are 10's of thousands of people here in Australia that came here from overseas countries where rules & driving standards are no where near ours who simply "transfer" their licence without any sort of test & just let lose on the roads.

Then we have the hoons who simply have no respect for anyone.

Not sure which one is worse?
 
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