Mansfield police again.

Mick_Marsh

Active Member
I believe that anyone a going for a licence, no matter what age should by law, have to do a defensive/advanced driving course.
Oddly, the authorities believe this is training people to be hoons.
Though you'd never get them to admit that publicly. Privately, it's a little easier.
 

rogerazz

4x4 Earth Contributer
Oddly, the authorities believe this is training people to be hoons.
Though you'd never get them to admit that publicly. Privately, it's a little easier.
At the time I wrote four articles in the Hearld Sun Motoring Section about road safety and recommending the defensive/advanced driving courses , the discussion about hoon drivers came up.
I attended course done by my five kids as an observer and to report back to the motoring body.
People who attended the courses were basically drivers who gained much practical knowledge and skills.
One young bloke turned up in a modified machine and did not do well.
He was so embarrassed about the inability of his vehicle to perform the driving requirements and some of his own ability that he left and did not complete the course.
People who attended all said that they had learned things that they did not know or understand about road safety. They felt better about avoiding or dealing with a situation.
My five kids were in their teens, youngest was sixteen and now all in their fourtys.
Fingers crossed, they have all done OK , and a couple have used their knowledge and skills to avoid a couple of hairy situations.
If anyone wants to buy the best birthday present for their teenage son or daughter, then buy them a defensive/ advanced driving course.
 

cam04

Well-Known Member
My wife tells me the same thing - 'studies have shown defensive driving courses make young males overconfident and dangerous'. That is far from my experience and as I said above, we did the 2 day advanced courses yearly. My young bloke will be going once he has some more basics going on. I believe you need more than his 30 hrs behind the wheel to reap the proper benefits of what they do at DD. For the record, I have been begging my wife for 25 years to do one - she could use it!
 

rogerazz

4x4 Earth Contributer
My wife tells me the same thing - 'studies have shown defensive driving courses make young males overconfident and dangerous'. That is far from my experience and as I said above, we did the 2 day advanced courses yearly. My young bloke will be going once he has some more basics going on. I believe you need more than his 30 hrs behind the wheel to reap the proper benefits of what they do at DD. For the record, I have been begging my wife for 25 years to do one - she could use it!
Once a hoon always a hoon.
Yes many young blokes I know or have known could be classed as hoons.
Depends on one's interpretation.
However, real hoons that are dangerous to society would laugh at doing these courses. Yes there is some practical driving, a bit of skidpan, however lots of good practical knowledge stuff where you understand road conditions, your car capabilities and your capabilities.
Hoons basically did not attend the courses.
If your kid reckons he knows all, he/she will find out differently.
No you don't get taught, burnouts, circle work, wheel stands, drag racing, high speed driving, etc. These things you see out there as you grow and then you make your choice when you start driving.
If you do a course before you get your licence or shortly after you may then not go on to become a hoon.
One of the biggest revelation in these courses was the number of licenced drivers who had no bloody idea how to handle an emergency stop let alone avoid an accident.
 

Rusty Panels

Well-Known Member
As I have said previously the technological advances in cars have made them way safer than the vehicles of the past. With ABS, EBD, Traction Control, Autonomous Braking, Adaptive Cruise Control etc, etc, and no doubt there will be even more gadgets to come. From my experience none of these systems are perfect yet. I've had a car slam on the brakes when it was really not in my best interests, and although the situation called for action of some kind, putting me through the windscreen and causing my heart to stop momentarily was not the action needed.

I think that even courses in advanced driving need to be re-designed for modern cars. All they do is teach you how to weave through some witches hats, brake hard on a wet surface and teach when you should start to brake. The modern cars pull the steering wheel out of your hands the moment you get too close to the white centre lines and slam on the brakes if you get too close to something so makes this type of training difficult..

The real problem as I see it, is that regardless of what age group or decade we are talking about there has been and will always be bad drivers. People who don't pay attention, ignore the laws, can't judge the width and length of their vehicles, can't judge distances and those who are just arrogant, pushy and rude. They are all just as dangerous as drink drivers. And I can't see how any type of training course will change them.
 

rogerazz

4x4 Earth Contributer
That's why there should be a very heavy police presence on our roads.
Cameras, etc. do nothing for safety.
Police can educate, send you back to driving school, or take you and your vehicle off the road.
It is incredible as to the number of drivers I see every day who have no idea what they are doing.
And yes most of them are not P Platers, so bad drivers are growing fast.:eek:
 

cam04

Well-Known Member
As I have said previously the technological advances in cars have made them way safer than the vehicles of the past. With ABS, EBD, Traction Control, Autonomous Braking, Adaptive Cruise Control etc, etc, and no doubt there will be even more gadgets to come. From my experience none of these systems are perfect yet. I've had a car slam on the brakes when it was really not in my best interests, and although the situation called for action of some kind, putting me through the windscreen and causing my heart to stop momentarily was not the action needed.

I think that even courses in advanced driving need to be re-designed for modern cars. All they do is teach you how to weave through some witches hats, brake hard on a wet surface and teach when you should start to brake. The modern cars pull the steering wheel out of your hands the moment you get too close to the white centre lines and slam on the brakes if you get too close to something so makes this type of training difficult..

The real problem as I see it, is that regardless of what age group or decade we are talking about there has been and will always be bad drivers. People who don't pay attention, ignore the laws, can't judge the width and length of their vehicles, can't judge distances and those who are just arrogant, pushy and rude. They are all just as dangerous as drink drivers. And I can't see how any type of training course will change them.
We were coming home from the Ferry in the ute on Sunday, driving through the back streets of Carindale. At one point one of the kid's said 'hang on...' - nothing happened. They went on to explain that 'mum's subaru always performs an emergency stop at that point' - i had no idea, they thought it was quite normal. Bloody hell. Swings and roundabouts hey.
 

smitty_r51

Well-Known Member
As I have said previously the technological advances in cars have made them way safer than the vehicles of the past. With ABS, EBD, Traction Control, Autonomous Braking, Adaptive Cruise Control etc, etc, and no doubt there will be even more gadgets to come. From my experience none of these systems are perfect yet. I've had a car slam on the brakes when it was really not in my best interests, and although the situation called for action of some kind, putting me through the windscreen and causing my heart to stop momentarily was not the action needed.
Annoys the hell out of me. I don't want smart automated systems, because what it means in reality is people don't pay attention when driving even more.

Care to argue? how many cars do you see driving with no lights since automatic headlights are a thing, how many people pull back in when overtaking as soon as the blind spot monitor goes off, not when they are past. or the ones that reverse into the wall at the supermarket because the beeper didn't go off.

take out all the smart systems and replace the airbag with a bloody big spike and then see who pays attention and drives to a reasonable standard when the car "won't save them"
 

LongRoad2Go

Well-Known Member
Annoys the hell out of me. I don't want smart automated systems, because what it means in reality is people don't pay attention when driving even more.

Care to argue? how many cars do you see driving with no lights since automatic headlights are a thing, how many people pull back in when overtaking as soon as the blind spot monitor goes off, not when they are past. or the ones that reverse into the wall at the supermarket because the beeper didn't go off.

take out all the smart systems and replace the airbag with a bloody big spike and then see who pays attention and drives to a reasonable standard when the car "won't save them"

Mostly agree, perhaps it should be 'learn to STEER' rather than 'learn to DRIVE', because using an automatic with all the mod cons in a driving lesson isn't making better/safer road users. Miss the days of learning on manuals, without ABS, and, those damn beepers to warn of the door being open and the seat belt not done up ... people had to be mindful of their environment just like a work site. Now, sitting in a car is like some entertainment suite in a lounge-room.
 

Komang

Active Member
Ask them to learn 4wd, drifting, drag
Not just start n go. And the most important thing always focus.
standard car can be dangerous too if doesn't know your car. (how it start and drive)
Almoust crash my car to barrier last week at round about during rain cause by half way tyre (getting slippery on wet tarmac)
Its go slip strait to barrier have to correct my steering to avoid it (traction control not on as quick as you think)
 

2luxes

Well-Known Member
My wife tells me the same thing - 'studies have shown defensive driving courses make young males overconfident and dangerous'.
That reminds me of a senior ambulance officer that I knew years ago. During a discussion about car accident statistics he mentioned the accident rate with ambulance drivers and told me about the time in his younger days when the top brass decided to send all ambulance drivers to an advanced driving school.

The result was many of the drivers finished the course thinking they were now up at Jack Brabham's level and the accident rate increased.
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
I admit I was a hoon of the worst kind as a young bloke without a care in the world, burnouts, speeding, drag racing the whole lot, as an older bloke I realised I was lucky to have never killed anyone including myself.
As an old bloke I also came to the conclusion it may have also saved mt life a couple of times, I taught myself how to control a car going sideways, first of at a slow speed then at fast speeds, I did it when I wanted to so that also gave me the know how on how to handle a car that has lost control which I was never taught by an instructor.
Point is driver training is to simple and only for getting a license, advanced driving courses should be compulsory for getting a license along with days in a class room and hours upon hours with a licensed instructor, the notion that it has to be kept as a cheap exercise is farcical and while we are at it there should also be re testing at 70, 75 and 80 then every year after that to ensure eye sight, reflexes and comprehension is still at a good enough level to allow people to have the privilege , as its not a god given right, to drive

Earlier in this thread I read a comment about young people not being able to do emergency stops, that is the fault of the parent or person doing the teaching, every one of my kids was put in the oldest car we had at the time and made to perform emergency brakes when I gave the go ahead to teach them how it was done and they continued to do it until they had it down pat , not to teach them that basic skill is irresponsible and negligent as far as I am concerned
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
The problem with relying on the parents to teach “ advanced driving “ is that many or most are not capable of it themselves
I believe it should be a prerequisite of getting a license and could easily be implemented with third party accredited driving schools providing the appropriate certificate that you then use as part of your qualifications to get your P’s
 

Rusty Panels

Well-Known Member
Annoys the hell out of me
That's one of the reasons I sold the Everest! Alarms screaming at you when you have a vehicle slowing down in front of you to turn left and they have a turnout but because you are less than a metre or two from them when you pass the stupid system thinks the end of the world has arrived and slams the brakes on. Along with stupid self dipping hi beams that dip because of reflective road signs leaving you in the dark at 100 kph. These systems will no doubt improve but at the present time they're dangerous IMHO!
 

Rusty Panels

Well-Known Member
The problem with relying on the parents to teach “ advanced driving “ is that many or most are not capable of it themselves
I believe it should be a prerequisite of getting a license and could easily be implemented with third party accredited driving schools providing the appropriate certificate that you then use as part of your qualifications to get your P’s
My mother in law's old boyfriend was a driving school instructor, he was without doubt one of the worst drivers I've ever seen. His car had more battle scars than a smash up derby entrant and they weren't caused by his students either.
I reckon they need to be conducted by a specialist at a race track or similar as they used to at the old Oran Park Raceway with a skid pan etc. The only trouble is however that these stupid modern vehicles will more than likely not comply with the defensive techniques. Many of them will go into low power and thumb suck mode when you attempt to do anything out of the ordinary.
Oh! by the way, I totally agree with you about the parents not teaching the kids anything advanced! For starters the kids won't listen to you and secondly most of the drivers that I've seen teaching their kids couldn't drive a suppository into place let alone a car.
 
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