Losing State Forests.

Patriot

Administrator
I ran into these guys at the 4 wheel drive show. https://www.bugu.org.au/ is a group trying to stop the conversion of State Forests to National Parks. There is a big rally on the 27th of August at Parliament in Melbourne, well worth checking it out. Have a look at their website.

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shaun0

Well-Known Member
Its mainly the city types and public servants that never get out in the bush at all that lock these places up. Its telling also that most of the green seats are inner city none are out in the bush. Have to wonder what the High Court would say about all this, mind you we know what they have said about native title but what about the rest of us, the 95% of us. Do we still have freedom in this country or is it locked up by bureaucrats?
 

Blue_haired_man

Well-Known Member
As someone who’s block backs onto what was a state forest, which was reclassified into a national park, I’m more than happy to show whatever educated fool thinks kicking out a viable industry who maintained the land to the lock up land and throw away the keys brigade, without allowing any extra funding or resources for an already stretched department.

Before long you have a haven for invasive weeds and declared pest species which doesn’t matter, that’s just the neighbours problem.
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
As someone who’s block backs onto what was a state forest, which was reclassified into a national park, I’m more than happy to show whatever educated fool thinks kicking out a viable industry who maintained the land to the lock up land and throw away the keys brigade, without allowing any extra funding or resources for an already stretched department.

Before long you have a haven for invasive weeds and declared pest species which doesn’t matter, that’s just the neighbours problem.
Not a greeny by any stretch and not a fan of locking up the bush so recreational activities are limited but certainly think it has some merit in some areas.
What viable industry, and please don't tell me that chopping down forest, of which 87% of harvested Ausssi bush get turned into wood chip and pulp, maintain it in a manner that reduces invasive weeds and animals such as dogs, cats, deer and fox
 

Blue_haired_man

Well-Known Member
Not a greeny by any stretch and not a fan of locking up the bush so recreational activities are limited but certainly think it has some merit in some areas.
What viable industry, and please don't tell me that chopping down forest, of which 87% of harvested Ausssi bush get turned into wood chip and pulp, maintain it in a manner that reduces invasive weeds and animals such as dogs, cats, deer and fox
Well behind me was an offset for the pine plantation down the road. So no they didn’t cut shit down. But they maintained the fire breaks, sprayed the lantana, and had trappers and contract shooters in there controlling feral pests.

For someone who claims not to be a greeny, you were pretty quick to pull out their farcical statistics. Do you honestly believe that the extractive hardwood industry like we have in Australia would survive if 87% of their end product was chipped. You make a hell of a lot more per tonne for round posts, power poles and especially milled timber than bloody wood chip.
 
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Albynsw

Well-Known Member
A lot of our good hardwood does get chipped and sent to China to make particle board etc.We don’t do it here because it is environmentally sound to use the nasty bleaching chemicals needed so we send it over there and buy it back in processed sheet form
According to a small local mill on the NSW south coast that I buy fence posts from tells me the big forestry companies have raped the area.
A lot of our timber is now transported down from Qld for milling for building purposes.

I have been buying pack lots of pine studs from a local mill and I asked him where it came from as was nice material, he told me they get it from a warehouse at Whetherill Park ..........it is all imported from Europe :rolleyes:
 

dno67

Well-Known Member
We as a nation really are a joke. When it comes eco friendly sustainability and management, it's more about being seen as green. Let someone else do the dirty work, then stand back feeling good about it. While pointing the finger. There's a lot of problems that need to be addressed before any real change can happen here, or a major catastrophe like the current recycling issue.
Then people and groups stand back and really look at getting it sorted and fine tuning the minor issues as the solution evolves.
 
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Hoyks

Well-Known Member
I grew up in a forestry town (Wingham, NSW mid north coast), back then the place supported 2 sawmills and some of the smaller towns also had mills that fed rough sawn material to the big mill in town. All sawn timber, no chipping.

State Forests had quite a few workers employed maintaining picnic areas, maintaining roads/tracks, weed control and doing actual research on how the forest recovered after logging. The roads were that well looked after that we used to explore in a XC Fairmont what are now 4x4 only tracks.

Those forests were logged for around 150 years with bullock teams and rail lines to bring the timber out before trucks became available. It was found that they did such a good job managing the parcels of forest that over time they became adsorbed into the NP. So the available logging areas became fewer and the quality of the available timber dropped off the big mill and the feeder mills closed.

With fewer state forests in the area, the State Forest employees were laid off, but NP doesn't have a budget or manpower to do much, so does bugger all in maintenance. I'm all for forest management, log a bit, preserve a bit and allow access to a bit. It keeps the fire access tracks open and keeps the clowns that want to rip the shite out of it in check because someone cares. I don't think putting an orange steel gate across is the answer.

One mill still is running, but he saw the writing on the wall 40 years ago and bought up big on bush blocks near the Cells River, put in a couple of plantations and does deals with farmers to take select logs.

I agree that it all seems to be getting done so a small number of inner city people that have no intention of ever visiting the area can have a warm and fuzzy just knowing its there.
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
Instead of arguing individual opinions, why not read the official proposal and science behind it. Then put forward your counter arguments based on facts. Even better, submit your arguments in writing to the decision makers.

https://www.greatforestnationalpark.com.au/park-plan.html

Extract from front page of the link

  1. Climate. These ash forests store more carbon per hectare than any other forest studied in the world. They sequester carbon, modulate the climate and can act as giant storage banks to absorb excess carbon if they are not logged. The financial opportunity in carbon credits is significant and can be paid directly to the state when a system is established federally.
So the state government locks up the land and hopes to make money from the federal govt via carbon credits???
 

Blue_haired_man

Well-Known Member
I grew up in a forestry town (Wingham, NSW mid north coast), back then the place supported 2 sawmills and some of the smaller towns also had mills that fed rough sawn material to the big mill in town. All sawn timber, no chipping.

State Forests had quite a few workers employed maintaining picnic areas, maintaining roads/tracks, weed control and doing actual research on how the forest recovered after logging. The roads were that well looked after that we used to explore in a XC Fairmont what are now 4x4 only tracks.

Those forests were logged for around 150 years with bullock teams and rail lines to bring the timber out before trucks became available. It was found that they did such a good job managing the parcels of forest that over time they became adsorbed into the NP. So the available logging areas became fewer and the quality of the available timber dropped off the big mill and the feeder mills closed.

With fewer state forests in the area, the State Forest employees were laid off, but NP doesn't have a budget or manpower to do much, so does bugger all in maintenance. I'm all for forest management, log a bit, preserve a bit and allow access to a bit. It keeps the fire access tracks open and keeps the clowns that want to rip the shite out of it in check because someone cares. I don't think putting an orange steel gate across is the answer.

One mill still is running, but he saw the writing on the wall 40 years ago and bought up big on bush blocks near the Cells River, put in a couple of plantations and does deals with farmers to take select logs.

I agree that it all seems to be getting done so a small number of inner city people that have no intention of ever visiting the area can have a warm and fuzzy just knowing its there.
Exactly my point, just explained a bit more eloquently.
 

Hoyks

Well-Known Member
Extract from front page of the link


So the state government locks up the land and hopes to make money from the federal govt via carbon credits???
You actually store more carbon by taking that tree and converting it into something else and then growing a new tree in its place. Growing trees capture more carbon than mature trees that just sit there.
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
You actually store more carbon by taking that tree and converting it into something else and then growing a new tree in its place. Growing trees capture more carbon than mature trees that just sit there.

That is how I understand it as well. Timber has become ridiculously expensive these days because it is hard to come by, you are paying about $6,000 a cubic metre for Australian hardwood and less than half that for imported material that is often secured by unsavoury means.
All the merbau you see in Bunnings etc is from rainforests that once housed orangutans so not only are we supporting environmentally damaging products from other countries we are losing out on an opportunity to support local jobs and industry.
I am told of a number of farms that get leased long term by industry just for carbon credits, speaking with one fellow just north of Nyngan has leased out his property for 20 years @ $350 k a year for it to just sit there dormant for carbon credit offsets
 

Blue_haired_man

Well-Known Member
That is how I understand it as well. Timber has become ridiculously expensive these days because it is hard to come by, you are paying about $6,000 a cubic metre for Australian hardwood and less than half that for imported material that is often secured by unsavoury means.
All the merbau you see in Bunnings etc is from rainforests that once housed orangutans so not only are we supporting environmentally damaging products from other countries we are losing out on an opportunity to support local jobs and industry.
I am told of a number of farms that get leased long term by industry just for carbon credits, speaking with one fellow just north of Nyngan has leased out his property for 20 years @ $350 k a year for it to just sit there dormant for carbon credit offsets
That’s the part that sickens me the most. All of this holier than thou crap is simply a smoke screen so that we can be seen to be ‘environmentally friendly.

Green tape is such that many Australian primary industries are priced out of the market even though the vast majority follow or exceed best practice guidelines in regards to environmental standards, only to be replaced by cheap imports where environmental standards are non existent. Out of sight out of mind. We may not all share the same landmass but we do all share the same oceans and atmosphere. And no I’m no climate change alarmist, but there a vast areas of this planet which have been irreversibly damaged and polluted due to poor environmental standards and continue to be, to this day.
 

rogerazz

4x4 Earth Contributer
Instead of arguing individual opinions, why not read the official proposal and science behind it. Then put forward your counter arguments based on facts. Even better, submit your arguments in writing to the decision makers.

https://www.greatforestnationalpark.com.au/park-plan.html
I hear what you say but I don't necessarily believe all that is written as "Official Proposals and Science". There have been times when I have read research and proposals, writings on scientific research? theory?. etc. and found that some have been proven to be wrong. So I approach this with a bit of skepticism and then throw in a bit of logic and more importantly personal experience. Like over many years of experience, having grown up in the bush over seventy years ago. I lived then and I live now and I have seen much change, some good some not so good.
Anyway, to just lock something up to "Protect our environment"?? is an easy way out of a difficult situation. Otherwise, go live in a humpy, ride a horse, hunt and grow your own food, etc. if you want to protect the environment.
I reckon more need to be done in maintaining our forests for whatever reason, however we need to employ more people to do that and others to pay for it through taxes etc. . Years ago I maybe saw someone or no one camping where I camped, today I see hundreds.
I know there are people out there running their own agendas and they get a little over excited in their wish to create their own world by locking it up.
 

Hoyks

Well-Known Member
That’s the part that sickens me the most. All of this holier than thou crap is simply a smoke screen so that we can be seen to be ‘environmentally friendly.

Yes, a lot of it is giving the illusion of green credentials, when in reality its just someone else's back yard that is getting trashed as over there are fewer environmental safeguards in place (or just plain old corruption and many blind eyes) that make it cheaper.
 
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