Lockdown Protests

Skurfer

Active Member
The Vaccine will NOT protect those around you if you have the shot. You can still get Covid and spread it. Only difference is that if those around you have had the shot they will not get really sick and should not need hospitalization. But even then some people double vaxxed have been in intensive care. If they have not had the shot then they MAY get really sick, need hospitalization, be on a respirator and may die. All the vax really does is give YOU better protection than those who do not take the shot. And even then some question if that medical opinion is true as well.
Like the others have said mate. This is just pain wrong and you need to stop believing the crap you read on Facebook.

Yes you may still get it unfortunately. That is basically what the "efficacy" rating is. 10% chance you may still get it. Then there is basically a 10% or less chance (I think it is in the single figures off last read, especially if you are healthy) that if you do get unlucky enough that your body doesn't respond effectively to vaccines, you may get sick enough to go to hospital. Thats 10% of 10%

Then there is the face of viral load in vaccinated people. I can't remember the exact number but it is something like 10x lower in the 10% of people that manage to catch it still, so 1000% less amount of virus particles you are firing into the air for others to catch (don't quote those figures as I can't remember them exactly but am not going to be doing all the research for misinformed people)

Take away is none of this is new. You're being misled on a very complex topic. It isn't simple. Trust the science. None of it is new. You seriously do not want this virus. It stuff you up big time, and not just for the period you have it for. I am in a line of work where unfortunately a few people have got it, and none of them have bounced back to be the same since.
 

synchro1

Member
"Then there is the face of viral load in vaccinated people. I can't remember the exact number but it is something like 10x lower in the 10% of people that manage to catch it still, so 1000% less amount of virus particles you are firing into the air for others to catch (don't quote those figures as I can't remember them exactly but am not going to be doing all the research for misinformed people)"

Now that is just plain wrong - You need top keep up with the research - all things being equal the viral load in a vaccinated person is exactly the same as an unvaccinated person and the risk in passing it on is the same - the safety factor is that with a vaccinated person they are unlikely to get as sick as an unvaccinated one.
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
Yeah. Research it for yourself Alby.

Whatever the hell "it" is.

It is just a bizarre situation. I am getting a bit frustrated with the whole antivax caper. Plenty of complaining from their camp with no constructive alternatives offered up other than we don’t like your plan, seriously?? At least have enough self respect to support your position to show that you have actually thought it all through and come up with something. It is like reasoning with a 4 year old.
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
@synchro1 Assuming this is your statement "Now that is just plain wrong - You need top keep up with the research - all things being equal the viral load in a vaccinated person is exactly the same as an unvaccinated person and the risk in passing it on is the same - the safety factor is that with a vaccinated person they are unlikely to get as sick as an unvaccinated one."

This applies only to a vaccinated person who has had a "breakthrough infection". So as the vaccine reduces the chance of getting infected then a vaccinated person is far less likely to spread the infection.
 

dirvine

Well-Known Member
Like the others have said mate. This is just pain wrong and you need to stop believing the crap you read on Facebook.

Yes you may still get it unfortunately. That is basically what the "efficacy" rating is. 10% chance you may still get it. Then there is basically a 10% or less chance (I think it is in the single figures off last read, especially if you are healthy) that if you do get unlucky enough that your body doesn't respond effectively to vaccines, you may get sick enough to go to hospital. Thats 10% of 10%

Then there is the face of viral load in vaccinated people. I can't remember the exact number but it is something like 10x lower in the 10% of people that manage to catch it still, so 1000% less amount of virus particles you are firing into the air for others to catch (don't quote those figures as I can't remember them exactly but am not going to be doing all the research for misinformed people)

Take away is none of this is new. You're being misled on a very complex topic. It isn't simple. Trust the science. None of it is new. You seriously do not want this virus. It stuff you up big time, and not just for the period you have it for. I am in a line of work where unfortunately a few people have got it, and none of them have bounced back to be the same since.
Excuse me if you are vaxed you will not protect those around you . This is not facebook facts but just repeating your original quote and also your follow up one.. Can you not understand what I said in my 1st post? Tell me how if you have been vaxed how you can possibly help those around you not getting the virus? If as you say being vaxed does not stop you getting the virus and spreading it. I am not talking about YOU being protected but the people AROUND you, That is what you said in the post I quoted of yours. Perhaps it is less likely but it still is quite possible and probable.
 

Colly18

Well-Known Member
The Vaccine will NOT protect those around you if you have the shot. You can still get Covid and spread it. Only difference is that if those around you have had the shot they will not get really sick and should not need hospitalization. But even then some people double vaxxed have been in intensive care. If they have not had the shot then they MAY get really sick, need hospitalization, be on a respirator and may die. All the vax really does is give YOU better protection than those who do not take the shot. And even then some question if that medical opinion is true as well.
I'm pretty confident you are a little off the mark here. I'm backing up Skurfer on this. Yes, if you are vaccinated you can still get the virus, carry the virus and spread the virus. But I'm happy to go along with the advice, from reputable medical authorities, I've heard on the media. That is, the risk of transmitting the virus to others by those fully vaccinated is far less. Makes sense to me - if you aren't vaccinated you get a serious dose of the virus and cough and splutter the virus all over the place. Fully or partly vaccinated, you may be mildly infected and not spreading as much person to person contact or air-born virus = less chance of infecting others. Yes/No?
 

Kippie

Moderator
Staff member
Excuse me if you are vaxed you will not protect those around you . This is not facebook facts but just repeating your original quote and also your follow up one.. Can you not understand what I said in my 1st post? Tell me how if you have been vaxed how you can possibly help those around you not getting the virus? If as you say being vaxed does not stop you getting the virus and spreading it. I am not talking about YOU being protected but the people AROUND you, That is what you said in the post I quoted of yours. Perhaps it is less likely but it still is quite possible and probable.
Put 10 vaccinated people in room A and 10 unvaccinated people in room B. Release covid in each room. 2 in room A will be infected and all 10 in room B. Release each individual from each room in separate rooms each with 10 unvaccinated people in it. So the two infected people from room At would infect 20. The 10 people from room B would infect 100. So, the vaccinated people from room A account for a total of 22 infections. The unvaccinated people from room B account for 110 infections. Who is more effectively protecting the people around them?
 

Skurfer

Active Member
@synchro1 there is literally not one study saying that. There is a recent US one by CDC which showed possible similar levels, but they qualified it by saying that they used a very inaccurate PCR test to get those results as they were not actually looking at that in their study. Was an outbreak study and was an observation they made of their data. There is a recent Israel one where they actually were looking at this and they showed a 15x lower viral load in breakthrough infections, which lowered a little 6 months after the vaccination. Similar in a UK one. There are heaps of studies looking at this at the moment as there is a need to understand whether a booster will be needed and if so when.

My wife works in infection prevention in a large hospital and is literally working on this every day.

Being such a snowflake as to not get a little needle and wear a little light cloth mask to help both you and others is crazy. I can't believe how soft people are getting these days. Crazy. Facebook is nearly fully to blame in my mind.
 

Corndoggy

Well-Known Member
See someone that has been at these protests was wearing a shirt with a company's id on it. The company has been coping a lot of shite from it. Turns out that a former employee that was sacked was sacked because he was bad at doing his job. Apparently he gave a mate his shirt so it could be seen at the march.
 

synchro1

Member
I'm pretty confident you are a little off the mark here. I'm backing up Skurfer on this. Yes, if you are vaccinated you can still get the virus, carry the virus and spread the virus. But I'm happy to go along with the advice, from reputable medical authorities, I've heard on the media. That is, the risk of transmitting the virus to others by those fully vaccinated is far less.
Thats how a fully vaccinated Doctor in PPE managed to spread it to some aged care facilties last week in the Sydney area. Sorry, very recent research has found infected vaccinated people have the same viral load as infected unvaccinated people and have an equal chance of passing the virus on to someone else - though a vaccinated person is not likely to get anywhere as sick as an unvaccinated person.
 

mikehzz

Well-Known Member
Even if it's true that the viral loads are similar in vaccinated and unvaccinated people, (and that's up for debate), it's recognized that the viral load decreases far more rapidly in the vaccinated people.
Yet another professor, (vaccine expert Professor Robert Booy from the University of Sydney) -
‘We know already that when breakthrough infection occurs, and actual viral load is measured that you can have similar viral loads in breakthrough cases as you do with primary cases.

‘However, within days of infection, the viral load in vaccinated people drops much more rapidly and therefore makes them much less likely to transmit and much less likely to be hospitalised or die.'
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
I think I'm starting to catch on. You just make some randomly wild statements and every one goes off and does the research for you.

It's just a pity that they don't even bother to read what is presented to them.
 

sharkcaver

Well-Known Member
Thats how a fully vaccinated Doctor in PPE managed to spread it to some aged care facilties last week in the Sydney area. Sorry, very recent research has found infected vaccinated people have the same viral load as infected unvaccinated people and have an equal chance of passing the virus on to someone else - though a vaccinated person is not likely to get anywhere as sick as an unvaccinated person.
In regards to delta - that is my understanding too. But you also have to acknowledge the risk of breakthrough infection once vaccinated is small, therefore the overall risk to the community as a whole is highly minimised with high concentrations of vaccination- not eradicated, but minimised.

Compulsory vaccination and vaccine passports don't seem as effective when you consider viral loads in the vaccinated that have caught delta, the now global dominate strain.

It comes down to: get vaccinated, lower your risk. Don't get vaccinated, roll the dice. Personally, I am comfortable with those that wish to enter the 2021 Darwin awards. There are no guarantee's in life, but there is a choice you can make. I've made mine.
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
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mikehzz

Well-Known Member
Then you have the story of my son's partner's brother who works up in the Hunter somewhere. They were all wondering about the safety of the vaccine and one of the coworkers said don't be stupid, get vaccinated, so he did and ended up really sick in hospital a few days later from an adverse reaction. Now there's a little pocket of vaccine hesitancy right there now.
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I was reading a study and report done by from memory a UK expert who summed it up very well for the un educated in epidemiology .
Basically he boiled it down to, the virus is like a car on a freeway with multiple off ramps and easy travel for those who are unvaccinated
but in a group where everyone is vaccinated its like a car traveling on small suburban streets full of cul-de-sac, its slower and will eventually hit a dead end, no pun intended
 

cookie64

4x4 Earth Contributer
"He believes he contracted the virus after unthinkingly shaking hands with one of his colleagues, who was refusing to wear a mask."

... and there lies the problem with reliance on HEPA Filtration

It should be part of the solution along with Masks, Washing Hands, Sanitizing (Aquiem) and general good hygenic practices such as what is generally happening now.

cheers
 

Skurfer

Active Member
It comes down to: get vaccinated, lower your risk. Don't get vaccinated, roll the dice. Personally, I am comfortable with those that wish to enter the 2021 Darwin awards. There are no guarantee's in life, but there is a choice you can make. I've made mine.
Basically this is it. The time of internet arguing is rapidly coming to an end and there is no point trying to convince people to help themselves, man up and don't be afraid of a needle. 80% vaccinated and the restrictions are let off and it's let it rip time, and not with basically 0 cases around like when the modelling and plans were made on. It really will be let it rip time.

It's sucks for all my family members in the health system. They are already overloaded whist we are in severe lockdowns to manage the patient numbers so everyone gets the best possible treatment for the best possible outcome. Not just those with the virus, but those that get sick from other things, have a heat attack, get injured in a car accident etc. This is about to end once the virus starts running free through the 20% unvacced (and don't forget kids under 16 aren't counted in this and under 12 aren't even eligible to be protected yet). You only need to look at what's happening in the US at the moments especially in places with lower vac rates such as Florida.

Currently my wife gets probably on average 2 calls a week from her sister who is an ambo in western Melbourne in tears about how bad her day was dealing with covid patients and the stress about how just 1 small ppe slipup could mean you could get it if you were unlucky enough to get a breakthrough infection or have to spend 14 days in a seperate room in her house not able to hug her kids or just bring it home unknowingly. Like imagine walking into a household where there are 6 or more family members all positive to treat one who is showing low oxygen levels, and their kids are walking in as they are excited to see Ambos and tugging at your gowns and masks and wanting hugs and stuff. On top of that being delayed to cardiac arrest patients by more than 20 or 30 minutes due to workload and ppe requirements which is basically a death sentence for those people. Those numbers never get reported. Cardiac arrest saves are at an all time low due to response times. Would hate to know about others such as asthma, critical injuries and such.

I'd imagine those phone calls are going to increase a little in the months to come.

Is what it is I guess. No one's changing their minds 18 months in.
 
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