Lockdown Protests

Kippie

Moderator
If you want to talk about freedoms or the loss of it will be interesting to see what happens if & when they have to finally losen their grip on the public health orders that gives them the excuse to take our normal constitutional rights away.

Now they have had a taste of ultimate power over the average citizen do you think they will want to give that up or use any minute excuse to reinstall orders??

There is no democracy when they install those orders only dictatorship!!
Do you know what the Australian Constitution is? If you did you would not put it in the context of your rights, it's got nothing to do with your rights! It does give the states the rights what they are doing now. Do your research first.

 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
So did anyone see the 1000's walking don the tan in Melbourne cerebrating the grand final win?
Yes 1000's with no masks and no social distancing, no police no public condemnation, no massive media coverage.
Open your eyes people, what is going on is so full of hypocrisy and lies its becoming more ridiculous every day
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
I will say it again

You blokes keep banging on about not liking plan A but again offer no plan B. You continue to dance around the edge knit picking the minor details but continue to avoid the heart of the issue

Surely you can do better than that!
 

Triton14

Well-Known Member
Do you know what the Australian Constitution is? If you did you would not put it in the context of your rights, it's got nothing to do with your rights! It does give the states the rights what they are doing now. Do your research first.

Ok, maybe we need a bill or rights then :p
 

Kippie

Moderator
Ok, maybe we need a bill or rights then
There's a Bill of Rights, but as far as I know it has not been assented yet, so it's not law yet.

The only rights you have under the Constitution are: right to vote, right of property ownership anywhere in the country, right of religion and right to a jury trial. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the lockdown protests have any issues with these rights.

The powers of the states to impose lockdown restrictions are embedded in the Constitution and state legislation.

Unlike, say the US where several rights of the individual are set out in the amendments of their constitution, our individual rights and obligations are in embedded in the myriad of federal and state legislation.

For example, our freedom of speech is not established by a specific law (like the US first amendment), but it's inferred through our commitment to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

 

Corndoggy

Well-Known Member
Throw a hypothetical in here.
After another 2 or 3 variants of covid, another one emerges. This time more than just "worse" than all others. This time more contagious and a mortality rate of let's say 10-15%. Current vaccines don't cut it. A new revamped, tested the same time as current ones, estimated to give 80-90% coverage from servere symptoms. No solid information on long term effects of the vaccine, probably say the same as the current vaccines.
How many of you anti vaccine, my rights my choice mob out there would, be fighting to get a place in the cue, as close to the needle as possible any way you could? Bet you wouldn't be gathering in mass walking the streets then. Would think the streets would be very empty and massive vaccination lines. If your rights and distrust of a vaccine are that strong would you change your view or keep it?
An true and honest answer would be appreciated. If that's possible.
 

Kippie

Moderator
Ridiculous question, your assuming everyone is as shallow as yourself
Play the ball, not the person.

There are already a number of viruses that are more virulent than Covid. Like measles, chicken pox, mumps. Fortunately most of us have been vaccinated (knowingly or not) against those during our childhood years and we've reached herd immunity.
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
And yet never before have such draconian laws been introduced.
would anyone like to comment on the footy crowds on Sunday?
Is the virus so deadly no gatherings are allowed or no protests allowed?
It seems it’s only the protesters not the crowd.
 

John U

Well-Known Member
Draconian laws? Never before been introduced? It's all relative I guess. There's plenty of examples of draconian laws being implemented by the federal government now. Covid restrictions don't even come close to them.
 

Bomber2012

Well-Known Member
Draconian laws? Never before been introduced? It's all relative I guess. There's plenty of examples of draconian laws being implemented by the federal government now. Covid restrictions don't even come close to them.
Do tell ?
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
Play the ball, not the person.
Thats a big comment coming from the crowd that continually call the vaccine cautious and those who are against all the extreme lockdowns stupid selfish morons then when clips are posted shoot down the individual for his religious beliefs, income or employment history rather then commenting on what he or she has to say
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
I will say it again

You blokes keep banging on about not liking plan A but again offer no plan B. You continue to dance around the edge knit picking the minor details but continue to avoid the heart of the issue

Surely you can do better than that!
OK I will try again just for shits and giggles, co2 monitoring, air filtration, rapid testing, actual quarantine facilities, actual covid hospitals and care facilities so to reduce the risk to other parts of the medical profession.
I just don't understand how so many do not see the lies and inconsistencies that are right there in their face and are happy with it , then just sit back and say everything is OK and they are doing their best.
The deterioration of basic human rights has been massively eroded, simple as that
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
OK I will try again just for shits and giggles, co2 monitoring, air filtration, rapid testing, actual quarantine facilities, actual covid hospitals and care facilities so to reduce the risk to other parts of the medical profession.
I just don't understand how so many do not see the lies and inconsistencies that are right there in their face and are happy with it , then just sit back and say everything is OK and they are doing their best.
The deterioration of basic human rights has been massively eroded, simple as that

Thanks for finally releasing your Plan B Matt.

I am assuming that since a vaccine was not mentioned it would not be available to anyone. The mortality rate would be very high particularly amongst our elderly. Firstly would you feel comfortable knowing you caused the infection of older family members or friends or anyone else that has a underlying medical issue including children? That would be what you are signing up for.

Monitoring and filtering might work fine but what percentage of the population operate day to day in these environments? I for one would have no protection as I rarely go into those type of places. Remember a lot of the outbreaks have originated from building sites, truck drivers and couriers etc.
I guess we could build all these new hospitals and quarantine facilities but why go to so much effort and huge initial and ongoing expense to try and treat the outcome when you have an opportunity with a vaccine to prevent going down that path in the first place?

What I am starting to realise now is your train of thought is really about your freedoms and human rights and not so much about a virus. So all this time with this debate one party is discussing a virus and the other party is discussing their freedom, any wonder nothing has made sense to date.
For me this hasn’t been about suppressing my human rights but about my health and well-being, the human rights aspect has and will continue as a seperate issue regardless and is an entirely different issue and I would be onboard with that discussion

So what we have now is people are dying from a medical issue when they think they are fighting a human rights one, poor buggers have been misled

Would we still be having this discussion if a contagious virus was circulating that had say a 50% mortality rate?
 

mikehzz

Well-Known Member
Any society that has lost trust in its government is up shit creek. Absolute personal freedoms are a myth, you cannot just do what you like. Society makes laws specifically for that reason and there are books and books of them. Our society has methods of changing the laws if enough people agree they need changing. Running amok and violence aren't one of the methods. Another basis for our system is that the majority decide what is in the best interest of the society. Therefore, suck eggs if you're in the minority because most people will disagree with you and not want to change the rule. Like I said, you don't have this mythical personal freedom, you only have the freedoms that society allows you to have that is consistent with the best interests of the whole society. Out governments aren't set in stone tyrants, they come and go at the whim of the society so the fundamental basic right of having a vote is not a myth.
 

rogerazz

4x4 Earth Contributer
OK I will try again just for shits and giggles, co2 monitoring, air filtration, rapid testing, actual quarantine facilities, actual covid hospitals and care facilities so to reduce the risk to other parts of the medical profession.
I just don't understand how so many do not see the lies and inconsistencies that are right there in their face and are happy with it , then just sit back and say everything is OK and they are doing their best.
The deterioration of basic human rights has been massively eroded, simple as that
Ok. I can see some merit in your plan "B".
However during the time it takes to correctly install air filters, monitoring best practices, build and complete actual quarantine facilities, quarantine hospitals, care facilities, apply rapid testing (still to be approved ), can you tell me how do we deal with the pandemic in the meantime. Maybe your plan b could be done in six months minimum, so can we now proceed to your plan C.?
 

mikehzz

Well-Known Member
I think the real issue is that a lot of people don't regard the virus as serious, and that it's being exaggerated for political or financial benefit. But if you look at the rest of the world you see a lot of the same response to it across many different and politically diverse countries. You can say what you want about the Chinese, but nobody can accuse them of being stupid. Their response has been among the toughest in the world, their lockdowns are severe. Why would they do that, their population is pretty much under the thumb already and there's only one political party, plus, they make their own drugs and vaccines. If Ivermectin was a real goer they'd make a tonne of it and force feed it to everyone....in my opinion.

People don't seem to grasp that it's not the virus itself but the risk of the whole health system collapsing that caused the main concern. Maybe everyone has overreacted but it's easy to play from the grandstand, yet decisions have to be made on the field. It's a dark view of the world to assume that the decisions have been made by evil overlords who have ulterior motives rather than just normal people who make mistakes.
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
I never stated that a vaccine should not be part of the solution, of coarse it should be part of the solution as should all the other components as they are already being implemented in other countries around the world. just like always Australia is way behind.
should vaccines be mandated? NO
They should be an option for those who want it.
 

Corndoggy

Well-Known Member
And just for a giggle.....
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