Loading dual cab ute

Gidgee

Active Member
I have a Colorado dual cab ute, and given the discussion regards overloading the tub and cracking the chassis I thought I should ask some questions about loading them. My understanding is the tub in theory can carry 1 tonne, but of course you have to take off any passengers and addons, canopy, liners, etc. At least Holden give a nice calculator https://www.holden.com.au/cars/colorado/payload-calculator and I get 770kg.

That's all well and good, but I bet they assume you're putting the load evenly across the tub.

As my forum name might hint, I plan go go collecting Gidgee, and some other hardwoods. I think I can estimate how heavy the timber is (bloody heavy is the rough answer), though I am all ears on any tips with that. I also plan to load it as close to the cabin as I can, i.e over the rear axle.

Are there any other considerations I might have not factored in?

I am also open to offers/tips of where to get inland hardwoods, Gidgee, Mulga, Dead Finish, Inland Rosewood, Myall, etc ;)
 

mac_man_luke

Well-Known Member
if you have standardish suspension you will be dragging the rear bumper before you have any real issues.
Should be a fairly evenly loaded really if you fill the tub.

Most chassis issues come from towing, air bags or over hanging loads like wheel carriers combined with heavy off road use.
 

Hoyks

Well-Known Member
You have a tub I assume?
I have a 1.8x1.8m ally tray on my ute which is about the biggest tray you will get on a dual cab and with the drop sides on filling it level with fire wood it will hold near enough to 1m3. I've stacked it up 2 foot high with ironbark posts a few times and it handled the drive home no worries.
A tub has higher sides, but you lose a fair bit to wheel arches and body panels, but still close to 0.9m3.

Gidgie Wood density:
Green density is about 1265 kg/m3, air-dry density about 1150 kg/m3, and basic density about 970 kg/m3.
http://www.fpc.wa.gov.au/node/821

So, if you had a block of air dried wood that filled the entire tub with no air gaps at all it would be over the ton, but that would never happen as there will be air gaps. Stack it level with the top of the tub and you will be sweet.
If you are collecting fence post sized logs and planning on loading them and leaving the tail gate down, then you are more likely to over do it, but use some common sense when loading it up.
Take it easy driving home, remember if there were any savage dips in the road and try not to hit them at speed.
 

2luxes

Well-Known Member
This is a problem many owners face. I asked a Toyota dealer about five years ago and was told there should be 100 kg in each seat if you want to load the car to its maximum.

About a year ago I asked another Toyota dealer and he said he had never thought about weight distribution and had no information on it but the Toyota rep. was due next week so ring back after that. When I rand back he said the rep. did not know either.

A Ford dealer told me a Ranger dual cab can have one person up front and the rest of its load in the tub without any problems because of "superior" engineering.

I have seen three emails from separate manufacturers saying the towing capacity should be reduced in off road conditions. There was no explanation as to what "off road" was.

The editorial in the 4x4 Australia magazine edition that had the bent chassis story said the carrying capacity should be reduced by around 40% in off road conditions. That ties in with what I was told while I was a member of two of the three Armed Forces.

Most owners are not aware of any restrictions, if any do exist that is, and load their cars up to the max or beyond. Some get away with it but geez a hell of a lot don't. If it is not the chassis that bends then its the wheel studs that sheer off or the axle housing that cracks or even breaks in half.

In your case I would be towing a trailer. As an example, two months ago my wife and I towed a trailer containing exactly 600 kg of split fire wood over the Blue Mountains to Canowindra in central NSW. The trailer consisted of the single cab alloy tray that used to be on my Hilux. The chassis is a 2004 Hilux 4x4 that has the front half cut off and the chassis rails curved in to a trailer coupling. The entire suspension, wheels, axle, brakes and shocks are standard Hilux. The diff center has the crown wheel and pinion removed and the hole filled up. Total empty weight is 480 kg and the ATM is 2000kg. I set the ball weight at 70 kg for this particular trip. It is usually lower than that.

You could put more than 600 kg in a trailer like that and about 200kg in the tub on your car. You will now have a heavier load than the car is capable of carrying but the car will be well under its carrying weight and a long way under its towing capacity. Do that and you are not going to break anything. If you try and do it all with the car and start modifying the suspension, you will always have a question mark hanging over its reliability.

Will you be driving cross country without roads while collecting this wood and have you done it before? If not then you may find tyres like all steel radials ( steel in the sidewalls ) or even cross plies are more suitable than steel belted radials no matter who makes them. Wooded areas are the worst place you can go for getting punctures and by far the easiest tyre to puncture is the steel belted radial.

You will find a lot of information about it here. http://www.beadelltours.com.au/tyre_information.html
 

muc the truck

Well-Known Member
I have a Colorado dual cab ute, and given the discussion regards overloading the tub and cracking the chassis I thought I should ask some questions about loading them. My understanding is the tub in theory can carry 1 tonne, but of course you have to take off any passengers and addons, canopy, liners, etc. At least Holden give a nice calculator https://www.holden.com.au/cars/colorado/payload-calculator and I get 770kg.

That's all well and good, but I bet they assume you're putting the load evenly across the tub.

As my forum name might hint, I plan go go collecting Gidgee, and some other hardwoods. I think I can estimate how heavy the timber is (bloody heavy is the rough answer), though I am all ears on any tips with that. I also plan to load it as close to the cabin as I can, i.e over the rear axle.

Are there any other considerations I might have not factored in?

I am also open to offers/tips of where to get inland hardwoods, Gidgee, Mulga, Dead Finish, Inland Rosewood, Myall, etc ;)
You do not distribute the load evenly over the tub . if you do that you will bend a chassis most of the load needs to be forward of the axle and that means stacking it along the head board . All hardwoods are greater than 1ton per cubic mtr (most is over 1200kg or more ) so you are not going to get much wood on with most of it needing to be forward of the rear axle .
 

Blue_haired_man

Well-Known Member
This is a problem many owners face. I asked a Toyota dealer about five years ago and was told there should be 100 kg in each seat if you want to load the car to its maximum.

About a year ago I asked another Toyota dealer and he said he had never thought about weight distribution and had no information on it but the Toyota rep. was due next week so ring back after that. When I rand back he said the rep. did not know either.

A Ford dealer told me a Ranger dual cab can have one person up front and the rest of its load in the tub without any problems because of "superior" engineering.

I have seen three emails from separate manufacturers saying the towing capacity should be reduced in off road conditions. There was no explanation as to what "off road" was.

The editorial in the 4x4 Australia magazine edition that had the bent chassis story said the carrying capacity should be reduced by around 40% in off road conditions. That ties in with what I was told while I was a member of two of the three Armed Forces.

Most owners are not aware of any restrictions, if any do exist that is, and load their cars up to the max or beyond. Some get away with it but geez a hell of a lot don't. If it is not the chassis that bends then its the wheel studs that sheer off or the axle housing that cracks or even breaks in half.

In your case I would be towing a trailer. As an example, two months ago my wife and I towed a trailer containing exactly 600 kg of split fire wood over the Blue Mountains to Canowindra in central NSW. The trailer consisted of the single cab alloy tray that used to be on my Hilux. The chassis is a 2004 Hilux 4x4 that has the front half cut off and the chassis rails curved in to a trailer coupling. The entire suspension, wheels, axle, brakes and shocks are standard Hilux. The diff center has the crown wheel and pinion removed and the hole filled up. Total empty weight is 480 kg and the ATM is 2000kg. I set the ball weight at 70 kg for this particular trip. It is usually lower than that.

You could put more than 600 kg in a trailer like that and about 200kg in the tub on your car. You will now have a heavier load than the car is capable of carrying but the car will be well under its carrying weight and a long way under its towing capacity. Do that and you are not going to break anything. If you try and do it all with the car and start modifying the suspension, you will always have a question mark hanging over its reliability.

Will you be driving cross country without roads while collecting this wood and have you done it before? If not then you may find tyres like all steel radials ( steel in the sidewalls ) or even cross plies are more suitable than steel belted radials no matter who makes them. Wooded areas are the worst place you can go for getting punctures and by far the easiest tyre to puncture is the steel belted radial.

You will find a lot of information about it here. http://www.beadelltours.com.au/tyre_information.html
Bloody good advice. I personally wouldn’t put a tonne in a single cab and take it up the Bruce highway, let alone a dirt/unsealed roads.
Cheers
 

Gidgee

Active Member
Well to be clear, I am not actually expecting to max out the load. Hell if I got a metric tonne of Gidgee I'd be set for life. :p
However, one should always plan ahead just in case one gets very lucky.

In regards to tyres, I had settled on Toyo AT2 LT (265/70R16) but Toyo doesn't advertise ply in the sidewall, well any ply numbers actually, though google suggests it's 6 on the tread with 2 steel, 2 poly and 2 nylon, and 2 ply poly in the sides. I might ring Toyo :confused:. Can't find much about puncture resistant sidewall tyre availability apart from the kevlar ones that are MT and horrendously pricey. I fully agree about off track being a nightmare, we staked so many tyres when scouting new sites back in the 90s.
 

callmejoe

Well-Known Member
Its actually a 1t pay load... Not what load i can fit into the tub.. So false advertising really. Put all that 1 ton in the rear and I'd be interested in your rear alxe weight...
 

Gidgee

Active Member
"Please note that the calculator is a guide and does not factor for Axle load distribution."

The irritating part is what 2Luxes coverered, i.e. why can't they tell us the full capability, $40,000+ and you get a useless manual that tells you the obvious stuff and none of the complex stuff. o_O
 

2luxes

Well-Known Member
Can't find much about puncture resistant sidewall tyre availability apart from the kevlar ones that are MT and horrendously pricey. I fully agree about off track being a nightmare, we staked so many tyres when scouting new sites back in the 90s.
The last time I was at Birdsville was about eight years ago. While refueling my car, a Landcruiser ute with a cattle station logo on the door pulled up beside me. Its tyres were 7.50 x 16 MRF Supertraction cross plies. I have heard the sidewalls in those things are around 1 inch thick. Someone on another forum posted a photo a few years a go of a new set of MRF Superlugs on the front of his GQ Patrol. They had zero air pressure in them but the weight of the Nissan could not flatten the sidewalls. The wheel was still about half its normal height off the ground.

Both of those tyres are shown on this page of the Beadell site if you have not already looked at it. http://www.beadelltours.com.au/mrf.html Beadells don't take their tours cross country in wet conditions which is why they use the Super Miller that you can see on the same page.

On that trip through Birdsville, I called in to the Bourke and Wills Dig Tree site. The park ranger had 7.00 x 16 cross plies on his IFS Hilux. He said he had 7.50 x 16 cross plies on his family car. I have seen plenty of other cars with that type of tyre in the Outback. You would not use them for a holiday in the bush but they are the only things to use when you either live there or go out there for an extended period and do a lot of cross country driving. They are the reason why Toyota and Nissan supplied split rims on their cars for decades. Those tyres and many all steel radials are too heavily constructed to get them on and off a one piece rim, particularly be hand.

The current Landcruiser WorkMate ute no longer uses a 7.50 x 16 as standard but the replacements are only 225 wide on six inch steel rims. I don't know if they are split or not but they may still be available as an option. I would imagine the 225s are good enough for most bush work but would be more suited to the high speeds on sealed roads that these utes are now capable of reaching with their V8 engines. Narrow tyres work better than wide ones in those conditions. Even the WW2 Jeep used a narrow 6.00 x 16. If they were a handicap, wider ones would have been fitted very quickly.

The 265 x 70 that you mentioned would not even be on my list. I have used a 205 for years in the Outback, including some of the Beadell roads, but the trips did not include cross country. Those little 205s would roll straight past many things that would be capable of puncturing the thin sidewall in a 265. With two 265s on the front you have the equivalent of a 530 mm wide roller looking for things to puncture it.
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
SNIP
In regards to tyres, I had settled on Toyo AT2 LT (265/70R16) but Toyo doesn't advertise ply in the sidewall, well any ply numbers actually, though google suggests it's 6 on the tread with 2 steel, 2 poly and 2 nylon, and 2 ply poly in the sides. I might ring Toyo :confused:. Can't find much about puncture resistant sidewall tyre availability apart from the kevlar ones that are MT and horrendously pricey. I fully agree about off track being a nightmare, we staked so many tyres when scouting new sites back in the 90s.
The Toyo LT AT2's are actually 2 ply, I called and after a lot of run around they confirmed it. Having said that they seem tougher than my old Kevlar Goodyears. ( which were crap all around) and have a good reputation against stakes. They are my favorite AT's. Watch out, some sizes are passenger.

Don't get sucked into that 8/10/ 12 ply garbage. No radial has more than 3 plys, and that 10 etc ply rating has nothing to do with the number of plys or toughness of a tyre. It is the "equivalent" ply rating from many years ago for load weight rating. These days the load rating is a number usually from about 106 to 124.

Look at the Toyo M55's they are tougher in the sidewalls again. Noisy for an AT though. The steel belts come right up the side. You'd have to go up a size though. http://toyotires.com.au/images/tyres/factsheet/pdf/m55f.pdf

They're not a great highway tyre. But tough as nails.
 
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Gidgee

Active Member
Thanks guys, good info. I'd picked the 265/70R16 because it seemed like it would be easy to replace if I had to, but I note the M55 is not a available in that size as you say, so I wonder if 245/75R16 is a more common size. I get the point of less width to avoid (even passively) stakes, but surely more sidewall deformation leads to more risk of (weak) sidewall damage when running lower pressure, so is the higher profile in the AT2 also a risk off track? Or does the sidewall not really flex enough to be of concern? (see pic of wranglers at 15 here extremely low I realise). Don't suppose anyone with AT2 higher profile would like to deflate them to say 18 PSI and take a pic :D

I think the M55 noise might drive me mad, and not good on the bitumen by most accounts.
 

2luxes

Well-Known Member
(see pic of wranglers at 15 here extremely low I realise). Don't suppose anyone with AT2 higher profile would like to deflate them to say 18 PSI and take a pic
Another 3 psi might make a slight difference in appearance to that Wrangler but around zero difference to puncture resistance.. Steel belted radials are not a cross country tyre and I doubt if you will ever find a manufacturer who claims they are. If you continue using them you will most likely have the same staking problems that you had before.
 

Tink

Well-Known Member
This has drifted from loading to tyres but talking tyres, the new Toyo RTs look impressive. Not sure of price. I asked a local dealer for a quote last week and he hasn’t got back to me.
As for loading the ute. My understanding is that a ute’s load capacity is shared between the cabin and the tray/tub. So if a dual cab is designed for 5 passengers, you need to take their weight off the total to determine the weight the tray is capable of carrying. If towing, you need to also deduct the tow ball weight from the weight the tray can carry. Plus you need to deduct the weight of any options or accessories fitted. Hmmm, the amount of weight in the tray is getting less and less.
So one tonne less 5 X 80kgs, less a bullbar (60), side steps (20), long range tank (20) and extra fuel (60), winch (20), dual battery (30), rear bar/yowbar (20), tow ball weight (150) equals 780 which leaves you with 220. Now most utes set up for touring have a canopy on the tub plus drawers plus a fridge plus a compressor. Not much room left :) Now how many dual cabs utes do you see loaded up with the family and camper happily scooting down a corrugated dirt road with the ute tub chocker block of gear and the roof rack loaded to the sky? School holidays it would be every second ute.
Sure, remove a couple of passengers and put some of your load in the cabin and you gain 4 X 80kgs, but how many people actually do that? Bit hard when carting fire wood.
Tink
 
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Gidgee

Active Member
Firewood? Brings tears to my eyes when people burn Gidgee!

In regards to 3psi, what I was suggesting is I expect not all SBR will deform the same, and certainly not all profiles deform the same. A simpler question, does a 245/75 deform sideways more than a 265/70 of the same brand? They are almost the same sidewall size but surely width will affect how it deforms. And does a Toyo AT2 deform the same as say a BFG KO?

Should I be running off track tyres when I go bush? Yes, but given that highway travelling is 95%+ of my kms over the next year, then it's hard to justify the negatives.

Back to the topic, a mate has the previous model Colorado, with 3 blokes in the back there is enough deflection on the chassis that the cab brake light rubs against the canopy, it's normally about 5mm away. That would have been closer to 300kg than 240 too ;)
 
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Tink

Well-Known Member
Firewood? Brings tears to my eyes when people burn Gidgee!
My reference to firewood was nothing to do with your collection of gidgee. I was meaning firewood in general.
In relation to gidgee and firewood, we were in a very remote location, hadn’t seen another vehicle for two days. Looking for a camp spot and Hema told me some old cattle yards where in the distance and I thought they might be a good place to stop for the night. Would never camp at cattle yards normally but no cattle had been in this area for decades. Coming up to the yards I spot another vehicle, bit closer I see two blokes yanking a couple of posts out of the ground. Pull up beside them to ask about the road they just travelled on and they were very sheepish indeed. After checking about the road, I asked what they intended to do with the posts, they said “haven’t seen any firewood for 500ks, looking forward to a cook up”. It looked like very old gidgee. As I was with my family and they were two burley blokes, I bit my tongue but was not impressed. How anybody could pull out posts on a century old set of yards for firewood has me baffled?
Tink
 

Gidgee

Active Member
Going more OT here, but more of us wood users, including firewood, could get involved or donate to mobs like Trees For Life or whatever reveg mob in your state is. Trees like Inland Rosewood and Dead Finish are almost extinct after being used up mostly on those fence posts mentioned.
 
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