Lithium Battery for camper

kevinjb

New Member
Hi

Has anyone tried the Lithium Iron battery for their camper?

I notice 7 x life of lead acid, 1/2 weight, faster recharge however 7 x price for 100AH AGM

Cheers Kevin
 

profoto

Active Member
Quite spectacular when they go bang, I wouldn't like to be near a 100ah.
A small battery about the size of a AAA exploded when the control unit/charger failed and it created a 1 metre + fireball.
What do hybrid cars use?
 

Xagtho

Active Member
If it is a LiFePO4 battery then it is very stable & recovers from being run flat brilliantly, price is inhibitive though.

The lithium polymer (LiPO) batteries, although very powerful, are less stable and have been known to spontaneously combust from time to time, with myself being a first hand witness on the odd occasion.
 
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Big Rig

4x4 Earth Contributer
I researched this also for my kimberly. price was high but possibly worth it however my chargers both 240 and the dc to dc including solar regulator all had to be replaced.
 

Batwoman

Member
Thought I'd bump this to the top as considering a LiFe battery. The weight is the major factor for me.
Is no-one using them?
Know they won't go into an ARKPAK. Anyone set one up and what are the other costs?
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
Have considered them myself as a permanent battery of about 26AH for running on just overnighters. 12V 26AH Lithium Deep Cycle Golf Cart Battery MGI Powercaddy 2yr Warranty | eBay On longer trips I could chuck in the 100AH deep cycle and solar panel. Supposedly there is no need to use special chargers and if the battery did go flat it should recharge off the car in 15 min. Cost wise it seems to be a viable option but still at the thought stage.

regards
 

stevemc181

Well-Known Member
I am about to go down the Lifepo4 path for my dual battery install. I have a DIY drawer system with a purpose built front cavity that houses my compressor/Fused distribution block/Lightbar digital drivers/ and will soon also house a 100a/h lifepo4 batt/BMS etc and Redarc DC-DC charger.

I have checked with the battery manufacturer and this particular lifepo4 setup is compatible with the Redarc DC-DC charger on the Gel settings. It will also be compatible to use as a jump start battery if the need arises, although to do this I will need to remove the battery and just connect jumper leads to the start battery. A bit of a pain, but shouldn't need to do it too often, if at all!

The battery and BMS c/w low ouput, high input voltage cut off Battery Control unit will set me back about $1000, yes it's expensive, but the main advantages are longevity if connected with suitable BMS and also weight. With a lifepo4 100a/h battery, this will give me the approximate equivalent of a 160a/h Lead acid battery due to the greater DOD of the lifepo4 vs the lead acid. The lifepo4 will weigh 15kgs, the equivalent lead acid is around 45kgs.

I'll be running my lightbars/compressor/fridges etc from the lifepo4 and with all on together, I'd be pulling about 80amps. The NW Pajero alternator is rated at 130amps, and will run comfortably at about 75% load, so say about 100amps.
Just to run the Pajero with the factory lights/air-con/ECU etc will draw a good proportion of this and not leave a lot in reserve for dual batts/spotties/etc etc. so my reasoning is to lessen the immediate load on the alternator and effectively limiting the additional current draw to 25 amps via a DC-DC charger.

I have been weighing this up for a while and can see advantages in both systems, the costs aren't so much different if you take into account using a quality lead acid + aux battery tray under the bonnet is going to set you back anywhere from $400-$800, particularly if you use an Optima etc. Most late model vehicles use a variable voltage and temp sensing alternator, some with ECU control via the canbus system, so really requires a DC-DC charger for optimum battery charging of the Aux. (There are arguments for and against DC-DC chargers)

The limiting factor with a lot of the lifepo4 batteries is the BMS, there are expensive models around that will not allow you to jump start if required due to the BMS they are using, particularly in the sealed units, the Fusion Lithium battery is one example of this. One of the main requirements I can see from an Aux battery is the ability to jump from it if necessary and also have a high constant current output if required. So buyer beware, do your research and make sure it suits your needs.

Lifepo4 won't suit everyone, but it suits my needs :)
 
I am about to go down the Lifepo4 path for my dual battery install. I have a DIY drawer system with a purpose built front cavity that houses my compressor/Fused distribution block/Lightbar digital drivers/ and will soon also house a 100a/h lifepo4 batt/BMS etc and Redarc DC-DC charger.

I have checked with the battery manufacturer and this particular lifepo4 setup is compatible with the Redarc DC-DC charger on the Gel settings. It will also be compatible to use as a jump start battery if the need arises, although to do this I will need to remove the battery and just connect jumper leads to the start battery. A bit of a pain, but shouldn't need to do it too often, if at all!

The battery and BMS c/w low ouput, high input voltage cut off Battery Control unit will set me back about $1000, yes it's expensive, but the main advantages are longevity if connected with suitable BMS and also weight. With a lifepo4 100a/h battery, this will give me the approximate equivalent of a 160a/h Lead acid battery due to the greater DOD of the lifepo4 vs the lead acid. The lifepo4 will weigh 15kgs, the equivalent lead acid is around 45kgs.

I'll be running my lightbars/compressor/fridges etc from the lifepo4 and with all on together, I'd be pulling about 80amps. The NW Pajero alternator is rated at 130amps, and will run comfortably at about 75% load, so say about 100amps.
Just to run the Pajero with the factory lights/air-con/ECU etc will draw a good proportion of this and not leave a lot in reserve for dual batts/spotties/etc etc. so my reasoning is to lessen the immediate load on the alternator and effectively limiting the additional current draw to 25 amps via a DC-DC charger.

I have been weighing this up for a while and can see advantages in both systems, the costs aren't so much different if you take into account using a quality lead acid + aux battery tray under the bonnet is going to set you back anywhere from $400-$800, particularly if you use an Optima etc. Most late model vehicles use a variable voltage and temp sensing alternator, some with ECU control via the canbus system, so really requires a DC-DC charger for optimum battery charging of the Aux. (There are arguments for and against DC-DC chargers)

The limiting factor with a lot of the lifepo4 batteries is the BMS, there are expensive models around that will not allow you to jump start if required due to the BMS they are using, particularly in the sealed units, the Fusion Lithium battery is one example of this. One of the main requirements I can see from an Aux battery is the ability to jump from it if necessary and also have a high constant current output if required. So buyer beware, do your research and make sure it suits your needs.

Lifepo4 won't suit everyone, but it suits my needs :)

G'Day,

Please let us know how you go with this particular battery and install.
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
Just a thought - but wasn't it lithium batteries spontaneously combusting that caused the Boeing 777 Dreamliner to be grounded for so long?

Just saying
 

stevemc181

Well-Known Member
Just a thought - but wasn't it lithium batteries spontaneously combusting that caused the Boeing 777 Dreamliner to be grounded for so long?

Just saying

There are various types of Lithium batteries using different chemistry.
The 787 Dreamliner problems were related to Lithium cobalt oxide (LiCoO2)
The batteries we are talking about here are Lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) which are far more stable and safer than other types of lithium batteries. The chances of a thermal runaway with these is extremely low and it is commonly accepted that they are safe to use.
Lithium technology seems to be the way of the future as far as battery tech goes.
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
Well, that's more than doubled my knowledge of Lithium batteries! And you're right - it is the 787.

Not sure about Lithium being the entire way of the future - the old lead acid technology might still have some life left in it. At the moment it appears to be the most cost-effective solution where size and weight aren't an issue - unless lithium offers lifecycle advantages in being cheaper in the long run. But again, car manufacturers aren't interested in anything that lasts longer than their warranty, especially if it costs more.

At least with lithium you would have a battery that would never suffer from depression. Or is it bi-polar?
 

stevemc181

Well-Known Member
I handed over the hard earned for the Lifepo4 set up today. $1100. 00, so I am hoping for a long life from this battery! I'll pick it up next week and hopefully get it all installed along with a few other bits and pieces over Easter.


I went with an EVP12V100AH along with the BMS-BCU-EVPPAK-4C Control unit.
from EV-Power. https://www.ev-power.com.au/-EV-Powerpak-Custom-LFP-Batteries-.html

I'll post up some pics etc when she is all done:)
 

stevemc181

Well-Known Member
I've drawn up a diagram of how I propose to wire up my system, any electrical gurus that can offer any advice or can see any errors in the proposed wiring diagram?
I am going to set up a Victron 702 for monitoring SOC etc, and a second LV shut off for redundancy.

LIFEPO4DualbatteryProposedWiringrevisionA_zps4c86d1a7.jpg
 
Hi,

Circuit diagram is impressive however the text is a bit small to read. Are you able to upload a larger version? Haven't digested it all but I think you said in this thread you have a Paj? You also mentioned about VVA's? Does you Paj have one? If so you will need to remove the link between the battery negatives and tie your camper chassis back to the vehicle chassis.

ECU probs can result if you don't.
 
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stevemc181

Well-Known Member
Hi,

Circuit diagram is impressive however the text is a bit small to read. Are you able to upload a larger version? Haven't digested it all but I think you said in this thread you have a Paj? You also mentioned about VVA's? Does you Paj have one? If so you will need to remove the link between the battery negatives and tie your camper chassis back to the vehicle chassis.

ECU probs can result if you don't.

I am not if front of my computer at the moment and can't upload a larger diagram. I also have a few mods to make to this diagram and will upload a larger version later. I asked on another forum about the Battery negs being linked and the associated problems due to the current sensing on the Paj Negative, no reply as yet on that one.
The only reason for linking the negs is so the Victron-702 can monitor the start battery Voltage, the 702 will give me full monitoring of the Lifepo4 and only voltage monitoring on the start battery.
I am not even sure it is possible, and I may be better going with the cheaper Victron-700 and monitoring the main battery with a separate voltage sensor.

Having a look back through the Victron wiring quick guide http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Quick-install-guide-BMV602-website-EN.pdf

I have the earths on the wrong side of the shunt, and it would appear that maybe I should just use the start battery as the only earth to ground? Not quite sure what to do here? The Victron shunt is also for monitoring all negative loads so maybe I am better keeping the two systems totally separate?
 
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