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Leave No Trace, your thoughts?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Discussion' started by Alien d2, Feb 26, 2016.

  1. rogerazz

    rogerazz 4x4 Earth Contributer

    A permit to go bush is to pay for policing to ensure that no one stuffs up our bush, hassles the good people and it stays open to enjoy..
    Like all permits, the reason is to raise money to pay for the maintenance, control, enforcement of rules, regulation, etc. like in fishing and hunting and other recreational pastimes.
    Our culture in Australia is to leave rubbish and make a mess wherever we go.
    At golf I am always picking up empty bottles, golf ball boxes, drink containers, food wrappers, plastic, whatever.
    So, don't pay for a permit, let people stuff our bush, appeal to their sense of pride????, educate them not to litter????, damage????, etc.?????
    I am sure everyone is getting sick and tired of cleaning up after the ferals, being harassed by the ferals and seeing the damage caused by the ferals.
    Maybe we could all let it get to the point ( National Parks are growing :eek:) that it would then be easier to control us by way of permits to enter and camp and drive where we are told to. At a fee. Like up in Kinglake Nat. Park. camp only in designated area. drop toilet no water, nothing else. Was $37.00 a nite for your truck and tent. Government felt sorry for us and dropped to $27.00 a nite. Because no one goes there. So effectively we have been discouraged. And that means no litter, damage, etc, :rolleyes:.
    Read about track closures every day all over Australia. Easier to close then maintain , Doh!

  2. ian.c

    ian.c Well-Known Member

    Hi loose cannon, just a thought but maybe the inspectors just can't work out why someone would be at an awesome place to fish but doesn't have a permit to fish, nothing wrong if you don't like fishing but don't you ever think gee I wish I had a permit so I could catch a feed tonight, if I was hassled as much as you say you have been, id just pay a few bucks for a permit and tell the inspectors to f#&ck off and get out of my camp.:mad:
  3. loose cannon

    loose cannon Well-Known Member

    I have a permit because I do sometimes fish, though rarely these days, maybe once a year.

    Whether I have a permit or not is not really the issue. The endless inspections and vehicle searches happen to everyone permit or not.
  4. loose cannon

    loose cannon Well-Known Member

    Absolute bulldust.
    The overwhelming majority of people do the right thing. Fact.
    Your comments are becoming more extreme and ridiculous.

    "If people are and do behave like pigs in the Cities and Towns, what do you think they will behave like in the bush?
    We live in a self entitlement time, bugger everyone else , it's getting worse not better."

    "Bring on the laws from Indonesia."

    I can promise your anger is no greater than mine when I see people trashing the bush but your over the top ranting adds nothing of value to the discussion and clearly you have no interest in seeking or discussing possible solutions. Bush permits and heavy penalties are all you have. Nothing else can be discussed, there are no other options. Everyone is a feral pig except you.

    I've had enough for now.:(
  5. rogerazz

    rogerazz 4x4 Earth Contributer

    All you do is put people down who don't agree with your thinking.
    You whinge about your lot , claim you are always right and waffle on.
    You then proceed to either put words into my mouth or worse you interpret my words in a way to make you look like a goodie two shoes.
    I am talking about littering, damage, etc. in the bush.
    You bring up every conceivable story about every conceivable thing you can think about. Nothing to do with this subject.
    Talk about waffle on and act self righteous???
    Do me a favour and stop telling me how good you are.
  6. ian.c

    ian.c Well-Known Member

    In this post you dont have a fishing license???? Contradicting yourself doesn't help when you want to pick rogerazz for an argument, you say you do fish but you don't carry rods or tackle????
    Why don't you go back to your first post in this thread and put yourself in rogers shoes, you attacked his opinion instead of just stating yours, just state IMO it goes a long way on this forum along with a sense of humour, arrogance just doesn't work IMO.
    If you talk to inspectors the same way as you have been posting here it's probably no wonder you seem to get special attention, they probably look for you to hear you go off again.
    think about it, we all wish for the same outcome, attacking like minded members respected opinions for the sake of the joy of an argument is not appreciated or helpful.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  7. loose cannon

    loose cannon Well-Known Member

    What on earth are you talking about. At least pay me the courtesy of reading what I actually wrote, if that's not too much trouble.

    I didn't say I caught 20 or 30 barra and had my photo on the front page. Just that it was quite common in the NT way back when.

    I don't carry fishing tackle unless I'm going fishing. I stated I go fishing maybe once a year.

    When a fisheries inspector comes into your camp and you have fishing gear but no licence then your in trouble, as you should be.

    I have a licence when I go fishing so no problem. Sometimes I let my licence lapse because I don't go fishing. If I decide to go fishing I renew. Sheesh' Get your facts straight.

    You may respect rogerazz's opinion with regard to city people, I don't. Nor do I respect his idea that Indonesian law would be good for this country. In fact I find those opinions offensive and I doubt I'm the only one. Get over it.

    Everybody is entitled to express an opinion but it does not follow that that opinion is worthy of respect. And if opinions of members are not open to debate or discussion then maybe a sign needs to be put on the front door to alert new members that they had better not criticize the established members.

    I gave my reasons for disagreeing with the bush permit and was open to a discussion. I'm happy to have my opinions queried and criticized and discussed and that goes for all topics. I actually like it when I'm shown to be wrong because it means I've learned something.

    Rogerazz clearly is not willing to discuss, go back and reread the thread but without the rose coloured glasses this time. Take some time especially to read his latest post, the one above yours.

    I get on fine with the fisheries folk btw, they are just people doing their job. My beef is with the system...but thanks for the childish ill informed insult.

    I gather it's ok to insult newish members. Just checking;)

    Bloody hell, it's like I've stumbled into an old boys club:confused:
    itlldoo and tankbloke like this.
  8. rogerazz

    rogerazz 4x4 Earth Contributer

    Welcome to the site and if you need sympathy for silly things, don't ask me.
    I still reckon a Bush Permit is a good idea.
    We have permits/ licences for fishing, hunting, burn offs, driving, flying, parking,keeping animals, marriage, drinking, camping, boating, visas, passports, and so on and so on.
    So why not a Bush Driving permit?
    Why not a whinging permit for people who whinge about having to get a permit. Like a fishing permit.
    Why not a permit for people who feel hard done by or a "Disagreement Permit"?
    Well, why not an "old Boys Club" permit.
    Lighten up mate and vent your disapproval against the ferals that are ruining our bush.
    Remember, your ideas, especially about education has not worked.
    So go the "Bush Permit".
    Permits, permits, permits.
    Must be hard for anyone who does not like having to pay for a permit. Especially a Bush Permit.
    P.S. I am not part of the "Old Boys Club" Because I have upset the apple cart a few times now.
    I just don't take crap from anyone.

    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
    ian.c likes this.
  9. ian.c

    ian.c Well-Known Member

    Haha you call me childish ? And you say what on the earth am I talking about, you know damn well what im talking about.
    I said nothing about 20-30 barra, only about you stating you had no license, then you do have one.
    The only facts I've stated are the ones supplied by yourself, if I can't get them facts straight its because they weren't explained straight by you.
    I am always courteous and respect peoples opinions
    I dont always agree with what everyone else says including roger.
    I did take the time to read your and rogers posts hence the reason for my comments to you.
    Rose colour glasses ? Naa
    Your first post clearly stated that you weren't there to share opinions or have a discussion, but I'll leave it to you guys, by the way I didn't know it was illegal to have fishing gear in your possession if you don't have a permit ??
    rogerazz likes this.
  10. rogerazz

    rogerazz 4x4 Earth Contributer

    ian.c likes this.
  11. discomatt

    discomatt Well-Known Member

    You are perfectly entitled to have all the fishing gear you want in a vehicle, it is only when you have a line in the water or fish in the fridge that a permit is a legal requirement and if it wasn't for the permit system and stiff penalties for breaking the law that fishing habits changed, nothing to do with education all to do with policing the laws, just my opinion made from a few years on the planet and knowing a bit about human nature...
    ian.c and rogerazz like this.
  12. ian.c

    ian.c Well-Known Member

    Thanks for clearing up that bullshit mate, thought so, talk about getting facts straight hey, think someone might be making up stories.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
    rogerazz likes this.
  13. Toddyh

    Toddyh Well-Known Member

    Not entirely true. If they suspect you are fishing and you have all the gear with you they can fine you. Seen it done. Obviously if you are just driving around nowhere near water they can't suspect you of fishing, so it's just if you'e in a spot (say parked by a river) that could be a fishing spot.
    Also had a mate fined for being on my boat with me. I've got multiple rods etc and the officer decided at least one must be my mates, who doesn't have a license. This officer was having a bad day I think as he also tried to fine me for fishing in an exclusion zone. We were anchored on the edge of the zone which is a flat and fishing into the channel.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
    abw and ian.c like this.
  14. ian.c

    ian.c Well-Known Member

    It all seems a bit harsh and almost unbelievable that inspectors can fine you because they suspect that you are going to fish, Imo you should be caught outright with proof and absolutely no doubt before they can hand out fines.
    Obviously innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to inspectors who if having a bad day can take it out on innocent people.
    Toddyh likes this.
  15. Bomber2012

    Bomber2012 Well-Known Member

    If you chose to go to court it would be thrown out , there is one bloke down my way who has been caught poaching squid 3-4 times . Fisheries had surveillance on him for 3 months they busted him and the restaurant he was selling it to . They confiscated his boat and was up for a 10k fine , went to court and fisheries were ordered to return his boat , he didn't get fined but was banned for fishing for 12 months (he was back out poaching the next morning). In Victoria fisheries are pushing shit uphill to secure a conviction unless it's abalone and then you are in trouble.
    ian.c likes this.
  16. rogerazz

    rogerazz 4x4 Earth Contributer

    Maybe we could employ some of these enthusiastic Fisheries blokes to work as B.R.F.C.B.P.'s, ( Bush Rangers For Checking Bush Permits). I reckon they would have the Bush Permit Regulations sorted pretty quick.:D.
    ian.c likes this.
  17. Albynsw

    Albynsw Well-Known Member

    I can just see it now Rog

    "I am fining you for camping without a permit '
    "But officer I am not camping"
    "You have a tent in your vehicle"
    "I know, I am carrying it for a friend"
    ""well what are you doing then?"
    "I am just sitting in my camp chair next to my vehicle having a Driver Reviver rest "

    rogerazz, ian.c and abw like this.
  18. discomatt

    discomatt Well-Known Member

    This is why it would be thrown out of court, same as if a cop did you for drink driving just for walking out of the pub with keys in your pocket...
    ian.c likes this.
  19. cookie64

    cookie64 4x4 Earth Contributer

    agree but I believe that if you sit in your car with your keys then yes they can breathalyse you - it is a joke really, should be as soon as you put your keys in the ignition as there is definite intent there, to merely have fishing gear in the car would be harsh

    tankbloke and ian.c like this.
  20. 4runnerSteve

    4runnerSteve Well-Known Member

    So what if some totally unknowing soccer mum in a prado parks beside the road near an entrance to a track. The officer could then suspect them of intent to go bush without a permit?

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