Land Rover defender vs Ineos Grenadier New 4WDs for Australia

[Albynsw]

Ineos does have an innovative approach to service and support. That largely does address the dealer coverage issue. I think I just found my next vehicle. No manufacturer has done anything like that for a long time.

I was thinking the same they are making all the right noises, problem is I already have a new vehicle on order. I would only be interested in the ute format and that sounds like it’s probably 3 ish years away anyway.
Imagine if the Tojo executives have to go back to the boardroom to discuss adding another cup holder to the 70 to combat the competition of the new kid on the block

I couldn’t help but think watching those videos that this should of been the vehicle LR Defender made.

 

[mikehzz]

Interesting how he is a diehard longtime Defender owner but still refers to it as a bucket of shit and referred to a 70 series as a strong reliable workhorse
His quote” maintenance on a Toyota is changing the oil, maintenance on a LR is changing a part” hahaha. But he is passionate and in love with his LR’s which is a common trait with owners.


Very interesting how they are going about sales, maintenance and parts. Not only does it totally remove any hesitation people would have of aftersales service and parts but has an added attraction that you can use your preferred mechanic or DIY and still have full dealer support. That would be a huge draw card for the consumer and would also be a cost effective solution for Ineos

I think he mentioned that they don't sell 70 series in the UK?

 

[boobook]

I was thinking the same they are making all the right noises, problem is I already have a new vehicle on order. I would only be interested in the ute format and that sounds like it’s probably 3 ish years away anyway.
Imagine if the Tojo executives have to go back to the boardroom to discuss adding another cup holder to the 70 to combat the competition of the new kid on the block

I could help but think watching those videos that this should of been the vehicle LR Defender made.

Luckily I have many years before I need to change. A 70 is out for me because I like to drive in my lounge chair. I was looking at the defender but it is even less reliable than all the ones before it, unfortunately, and they have gone to an 'urban picnic set' market, and the 300 might be a bit too close to 'more of the same'.

I keep thinking that some of the best times I had 4wding was in my series 3. It was how I cut my teeth in 4wding ( with a turfor) but shit it was always off the road and sent me broke with 'Maintenance' LOL. I'm thinking that something more dedicated might be what I need in a few years, and get a small city car.

So I think this is the best outcome ever. All the utilitarian parts of a defender, a serious attempt to make it reliable, decent power / torque and fixable further away from the Melbourne CBD than Brighton or Armadale. I saw a few weeks ago another ( Not TFL) youtuber had his brand new Defender replaced because that was unfixable, and his new one had major issues too. He posted it about 8 weeks ago.

Thank god LF screwed the pooch and went for the inner city yuppie market, creating an opportunity for Ineos to start up, so I can consider what I want without having to buy a lemon.

My current thinking is this, keep my 200 for 20 years, 300, Jeep, or even a truck type thing in that approximate order.

 

[boobook]

I think he mentioned that they don't sell 70 series in the UK?

There are 173 LR dealers in the UK, and a Landrover dealer within 40km of anywhere in the UK, plus nowhere remote to drive, so towing inconvenience and reliability don't count much there. The maximum tow home is 100 pounds. Cheaper than a London cab.

Anyway, most Land Rovers are used on farms, so you are already home when you break down. Very convenient.

Not much of a market for 70's since the insurgents got kicked out by the UK government.

 

[Vesko]

Part 2

"Parts, warranty and aftersales" section of the video, if implemented is a gamechanger.

 

[Albynsw]

I think he mentioned that they don't sell 70 series in the UK?

That was another interesting point. Ineos anticipates 70% of its sales will come from UK and the USA, both markets that the 70 does not operate in and yet it is being seen as a 70 equivalent/ rival.
Perhaps the market for the utilitarian 70 style vehicle is much broader than what Toyota bothers with?

He didn’t seem to reference it against the the new Defer so he obviously doesn’t consider it part of this category anymore

 

[synchro1]

I couldn’t help but think watching those videos that this should of been the vehicle LR Defender made.

You may be right but remember until it was announced that the old Defender was going to be phased out no one was buying the old Defender new (had a great second hand following) and sales were right down. Most of the people who are pushing how great the Ineos will be are the sort of people who drive a 30 yo Defender and are too tight to buy anything - no matter what the brand - new.

Sales of the old Defender were crap, sales of the G-wagen were crap and realistically as the Ineos is their direct competitor I do not think despite the applauds, this vehicle will be an also ran with public sales - if like the G Wagen it can get corporate/military sales then it might survive.

Other than the prototypes that we have see various videos of, have any production models actually been made?

 

[boobook]

You may be right but remember until it was announced that the old Defender was going to be phased out no one was buying the old Defender new (had a great second hand following) and sales were right down. Most of the people who are pushing how great the Ineos will be are the sort of people who drive a 30 yo Defender and are too tight to buy anything - no matter what the brand - new.

Sales of the old Defender were crap, sales of the G-wagen were crap and realistically as the Ineos is their direct competitor I do not think despite the applauds, this vehicle will be an also ran with public sales - if like the G Wagen it can get corporate/military sales then it might survive.

Other than the prototypes that we have see various videos of, have any production models actually been made?

I understand you can draw the conclusion that the Ineos is a competitor to those 2 vehicles. But the Ioneos appears to have the off road cred without the issues of the other two.

Landrover screwed the pooch with reliability and the G professional is great off-road but a complete dog onroad. If Ineos get that and don't heave dealer service departments hired from basterds incorporated.

If the Ineos is reliable and can travel at even 100kmph then it is a different market. IMHO.

 

[cam04]

That last puma powered deefer had a pretty poor rep. It scared me off buying one. Auto, coils, power and a Ute. The Ineos has my attention.

 

[Albynsw]

You may be right but remember until it was announced that the old Defender was going to be phased out no one was buying the old Defender new (had a great second hand following) and sales were right down. Most of the people who are pushing how great the Ineos will be are the sort of people who drive a 30 yo Defender and are too tight to buy anything - no matter what the brand - new.

Sales of the old Defender were crap, sales of the G-wagen were crap and realistically as the Ineos is their direct competitor I do not think despite the applauds, this vehicle will be an also ran with public sales - if like the G Wagen it can get corporate/military sales then it might survive.

Other than the prototypes that we have see various videos of, have any production models actually been made?

Yes true but what have done is built a RR / Disco version Defender with some spray on mud
I think they went too far and as a result left the market they were in and instead started competing with themselves with their other products
Ineos looks to be at a point it will appeal to the 70 ,old Defer, Jeep, G Wagon buyers plus will still attract a segment of the Prado type crowd

I remember wanting to buy a new Defender 15 odd years ago until I sat in it and it was a deal breaker when they couldn’t put the steering wheel in front of the driver and my head was against the window
They had some issues…..

 

[synchro1]

But the Ioneos appears to have the off road cred without the issues of the other two.

At the stage of development of the Ineos how can you make any assumption that it will have no issues. Lets wait and see what the production models are like.

 

[boobook]

At the stage of development of the Ineos how can you make any assumption that it will have no issues. Lets wait and see what the production models are like.

I meant the on-road issues of not being very drivable at speed above 90kmph that the other two have plus LR reliability. The Ineos appears to have a lot more torque and power than the others.

As to having no issues I didn't mean to imply that. Who knows.

 

[mikehzz]

Yes true but what have done is built a RR / Disco version Defender with some spray on mud
I think they went too far and as a result left the market they were in and instead started competing with themselves with their other products
Ineos looks to be at a point it will appeal to the 70 ,old Defer, Jeep, G Wagon buyers plus will still attract a segment of the Prado type crowd

I remember wanting to buy a new Defender 15 odd years ago until I sat in it and it was a deal breaker when they couldn’t put the steering wheel in front of the driver and my head was against the window
They had some issues…..

Yeah, I wanted a Defender until I drove one. I wouldn't have bought it even if it was reliable. If the Grenadier is ok to drive then I'm keen. As a former Jeep owner who took it solo out into the proper Never Never, I'm not phased by reliability worries.

 

[linuxfan66]

I meant the on-road issues of not being very drivable at speed above 90kmph that the other two have plus LR reliability. The Ineos appears to have a lot more torque and power than the others.

As to having no issues I didn't mean to imply that. Who knows.

there is no ways they are gonna sell it and not make it suitable for highway miles still given the modern buyer

 

[LongRoad2Go]

Very early days yet, too many unknowns. It would be good if INEOS provided a 'feedback' option NOW, so potential customers could point out some early issues - reducing the need to revise it later = $$$$.

Would like to see a 'tropicalised' version (no heated seats, etc), a single cab ute version, and manual gearbox option.

Have about 4 years till needing a new vehicle, so it'll be 'game on' between Toyota 79 and INEOS.

 

[discomatt]

Why would you want a manual version when that 8 speed has an electric converter that locks up in every gear, can be driven as a full manual and as standard can take over 700NM. All the while being by silky smooth?
Manual g at boxes are very yesterday IMO

 

[hiluxxury]

Why would you want a manual version when that 8 speed has an electric converter that locks up in every gear, can be driven as a full manual and as standard can take over 700NM. All the while being by silky smooth?
Manual g at boxes are very yesterday IMO

Haha too true

 

[linuxfan66]

Why would you want a manual version when that 8 speed has an electric converter that locks up in every gear, can be driven as a full manual and as standard can take over 700NM. All the while being by silky smooth?
Manual g at boxes are very yesterday IMO

they want the feel of an manual controlling connection the clutch and gearstick gives? also the millennial antitheft device. /joke

 

[LongRoad2Go]

Why would you want a manual version when that 8 speed has an electric converter that locks up in every gear, can be driven as a full manual and as standard can take over 700NM. All the while being by silky smooth?
Manual g at boxes are very yesterday IMO

More stuff to go wrong when least convenient. Besides, I'm VERY 'yesterday' in most things, sh-t, I even like campfires, tents, beer and women, not necessarily in that order.

Personal preference - I like to DRIVE a car, not STEER it.

 

[boobook]

My kid just got a Subaru BRZ manual. I think I love driving it more than he does.