Land Rover defender vs Ineos Grenadier New 4WDs for Australia

What would you buy - Defender or Grenadier?

  • Land Rover Defender

    Votes: 6 15.8%

  • Ineos Grenadier

    Votes: 32 84.2%
  • Total voters
    38
callmejoe

callmejoe

Well-Known Member
At $80k plus, with no real "history" to speak of, most likely a tiny back up support net work will make it extremely hard to sell to the market they are aiming and promoting it for.
So with small sales it'll never take off.
 
B

boobook

Well-Known Member
Saw this today.

I must admit I am surprised at the outcome of the case, but its good news for everyone except LR I guess. It clears a major hurdle in the Grenadier's program.

www.caradvice.com.au

Land Rover loses trademark appeal against 'copycat' Ineos Grenadier | CarAdvice

Land Rover has lost an appeal in the United Kingdom High Court in its attempt to trademark the original design of the Land Rover Defender. This decision comes after Land Rover appealed the decision o ...
www.caradvice.com.au www.caradvice.com.au
Interestingly the Defender is LR's top-selling LR already. 64. Though on the surface it took all those sales from the Disco which had 164 in June.

Defender – 64
Discovery – 39
Discovery Sport – 56
Range Rover – 16
Range Rover Evoque – 47
Range Rover Sport – 53
Range Rover Velar – 31
Land Rover Total – 306

www.caradvice.com.au

VFACTS: June 2020 new car sales, the complete report | CarAdvice

Australian new-car sales performed significantly better than expected in June, however the industry is still cautious about the recovery from the COVID-19 slowdown which saw the weakest May result in ...
www.caradvice.com.au www.caradvice.com.au
 
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discomatt

discomatt

Well-Known Member
boobook said:
Interestingly the Defender is LR's top-selling LR already. 64. Though on the surface it took all those sales from the Disco which had 164 in June.
Click to expand...
The numbers of the Disco 5 dropping is no surprise, I have done some research on those lately and although a sublimely comfortable and capable car they are plagued with problems, I wouldn't touch one thats for sure. Sadly I suspect the Defender will prove to be the same over time
 
Warby

Warby

Well-Known Member
discomatt said:
The numbers of the Disco 5 dropping is no surprise, I have done some research on those lately and although a sublimely comfortable and capable car they are plagued with problems, I wouldn't touch one thats for sure. Sadly I suspect the Defender will prove to be the same over time
Click to expand...
Not to mention the visual styling of the Disco 5. :eek::eek: I'm not sure who they hired or fired in the design department at Landrover in recent years, but whatever happened needs to be undone. Quick.

The Defender and the Discovery each had a particular "look" about them that was at the same time unique, appealing and functional, which has been completely lost in the latest iteration of both. I know that aesthetics are a subjective topic at best, but there's no denying that they've gone in a completely different direction which doesn't ring true to the Landrover name.
 
maxdacat

maxdacat

New Member
Neither since they are both auto-only (and way out of my budget anyway :)

Not sure how this choice, in both cars, is meant to appeal to traditional 4x4'ers. I like to know what gear I'm in and give my left hand something to do on long drives.
 
B

boobook

Well-Known Member
This Youtube clip is about the trademark battle of the Defender and Ineos by a US trademark attorney.

It's not technical or about which is better, it focusses on the process and law. It's interesting because many will be familiar with the 2 vehicles and the arguments.

 
B

Bru9

Member
You don't have to understand feynman diagrams or calabi yau manifolds to know the Grenadier looks too small internally just like the discriminating defender, so I think it's dead unless you are no taller than 5ft 2 :(
But Chite!, take a look at the ridiculous prices of old second hand defenders, makes me wan't to retire from the human race. I'd rather save a bit longer
for something new from the ground up. It will be powerful, luxurious & tough I have no doubt, BUT sorry no one I know in the real world can afford these apart from a few greedy retired people who hoarded money their whole life..
On top of that price you got 8-10K for electrics, 10K for camping gear (no joke!), 10K for rainy day, 10K for 4wd mods, 35-45K for camper bare minimum unless you get a chinese pile of trash................................ (oh no, was that political incorrect, or dare I say it, the R word???)

Yeah sorry to be a party poopero_O I'm happy my cheapy 4wd, it holds gear most can only dream of rolling around with. be cool:cool:
 
callmejoe

callmejoe

Well-Known Member
I have been watching the Toyotas guessing game about the "New 300" with a rye smile. Man Toyotas fans club can spin a story, after story, after story about nothing. Cause ALL the info out is still totally speculation...

1 of the biggest speculation going around is "What motor". Which has got me thinking as 1 of the motors being thrown around in the Toyotas fan club world is the BMW v6. Now if this would happen to be the same or similar enough to the Grenadier motor (also speculated BMW) thiscould really open up availability of parts and be a small windfall for them.
 
B

boobook

Well-Known Member
I think most of that 300 speculation is driven by the media. all sourced back to the same 1 Japanese spy magazine, trying to drum up clicks Callmejoe, and probably driven by Toyota marketing who must be laughing all the way to the bank. There is a lot of speculation, from 2.8l 4 cyl to no diesel, to no 300. But most of the current chat is that a diesel will be a 3.3l V6 diesel. BMW has never made a V6 in any flavour and vowed they wouldn't. So if the 300 ends up with a BMW engine it would be a straight 6. To my knowledge, there is no 3.3l BMW diesel either. Toyota has never made a V6 diesel either.

Your point is valid though, In order, I think a 300 diesel would be a 4.5 TTD V8, then 3.0 BMW straight 6, then V6 diesel a long way behind.

Toyota sources the Supra, and diesels in Europe from BMW. Imagine if Toyota bought Ineos to replace the 70. That would tick every box.
 
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rob_macca67

rob_macca67

Well-Known Member
Bru9 said:
You don't have to understand feynman diagrams or calabi yau manifolds to know the Grenadier looks too small internally just like the discriminating defender, so I think it's dead unless you are no taller than 5ft 2 :(
But Chite!, take a look at the ridiculous prices of old second hand defenders, makes me wan't to retire from the human race. I'd rather save a bit longer
for something new from the ground up. It will be powerful, luxurious & tough I have no doubt, BUT sorry no one I know in the real world can afford these apart from a few greedy retired people who hoarded money their whole life..
On top of that price you got 8-10K for electrics, 10K for camping gear (no joke!), 10K for rainy day, 10K for 4wd mods, 35-45K for camper bare minimum unless you get a chinese pile of trash................................ (oh no, was that political incorrect, or dare I say it, the R word???)

Yeah sorry to be a party poopero_O I'm happy my cheapy 4wd, it holds gear most can only dream of rolling around with. be cool:cool:
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I don't agree with u...

To my knowledge, the internals is not finished yet and I reckon its too soon to make that sort of statement plus I own an old defender and I'm 6ft and I have not problems with driving it. Yes at first it may seem a bit cramped in the driver's seat, especially with the location of the handbrake - but I have found like most things that over time u get used to it and then don't really notice it at all when driving...

The prices of old Defenders is up there for sure but that's no difference to the old Toyotas (& probably Patrols too) either... It seems funny that the more the modern 4WD's become so-called smarter in their Tech they have that the more the demand is for the older model 4wd's increases... go figure...

The comments about the cost for electrics & camping gear, etc is very much an individual thing - For me I try to keep these sort of things to the minimum as much as I can & don't get caught up in all the media hype saying that u must have this or that...

I'm really hoping that this Ineos Grenadier really does meet the 4WD'ers needs and requirements and gives Toyota a run for it's money - but like anything it comes down to money, so only time will tell

This is just my point of view... but I'm sure others will have their own opinions
 
Hoyks

Hoyks

Well-Known Member
Really selfless of Andrew to offer to test one on an extended outback tour for them. I'm guess they would be kicking in for the fuel?


The whole dealer network is a dated concept though, having to have a few demo's and sales staff sitting around waiting for customers to walk in. These days you have a pretty good idea what you're going to get before you walk in the door and there are few cars that are that truly bad and a 10 minute test drive will reveal any ergonomic issues that haven't been identified by professional test drivers.

Any bodywork warranty stuff, then you used to take it to the dealer who would push it out to a panel shop. No reason the distributor can't send you straight to the panel shop and save the middle man. There is no reason the same can't be done with mechanical stuff. Most dealers only really make money on the servicing and warranty work that is generally done by the apprentices, so you can cut away a level semiskilled labor there and go to an approved service agent for the same service, but less overheads.

You will miss the personalized service from the dealer, but from my experience that was only a coffee, muffin, getting dicked around for a few hours, leaving with a sour taste a vowing never to set foot in there ever again.



Watching Auto Expert the other day and he raised a good point about R&D savings.
Back in the day all the car makers would develop all their gizmos in-house and release them with the new model. Thats a lot of development bodies, failures, testing and coming up with the ideas in the 1st place that you have to pay for to keep ahead.
Today there are a multitude of electronics manufactures that will sell you that stuff off-the-shelf to integrate in your new model. Body control modules, engine management, ABS, stability control, collision avoidance... it all used to be proprietary equipment, made for a specific model and manufactured in relatively low numbers.
Now Bosch will sell you a kit, tune it to your model and they also make them by the thousands and just flash the data onto them as they roll off the line or with a laptop when you install it, so cost per unit is low.
The point he was making was that you can build a car relatively cheaply now and include top of the line reliable electronic stuff as standard that would have cost you an absolute fortune to tick all the options boxes on the traditional euro brands.
 
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