Land Rover defender vs Ineos Grenadier New 4WDs for Australia

What would you buy - Defender or Grenadier?

  • Land Rover Defender

    Votes: 5 10.6%
  • Ineos Grenadier

    Votes: 42 89.4%

  • Total voters
    47

Patriot

Administrator
Defender vs Grenadier twitter.jpg

Many people have complained about the look of the new Land Rover Defender. I loved the classic look and for me, it looks kind of like a new Patrol.

It looks like Jim Ratcliffe, owner of INEOS Chemicals isnt' happy with the way that Land rover has gone either with

What do we know about the new INEOS Grenadier?

Similar construction as the old Defender - rigid axles, lock front, rear and centre diffs, and a similar look (epic!)
BMW engines. ZF auto gearboxes.
Made by Magna Steyr who also make Supras, Merc G-Class and 5 series BMWs.
AEB included for safety.

The INEOS mission is to honour the clear brief set out for the Grenadier by delivering a design that is at once easy to read, honest and captures the timeless appeal of a utilitarian 4x4.

Check out the Ineos story. I am going to try and find out more info on what and when and how much for Australian Grenadiers.

There is more discussion on 4x4earth about the INEOS here.
 

Attachments

  • 1593837197747.png
    1593837197747.png
    324.2 KB · Views: 130
Last edited:

Decca

Active Member
Love the look of the Grenadier, although can't seem to find any pix of the inside.
Still wondering if LR will legally contest it is a clone of the defender

Decca
 

mikehzz

Well-Known Member
I've decided if they're around the same price, then the Grenadier wins by a big margin, provided it isn't a pig to sit in of course. One of the design features is minimal electrics. That's a good thing in itself. I'd be happy with ABS for on road and front, centre and rear lockers for off road. Forget the traction control, I don't want it. Forget hill descent, in fact, turn off ABS once any of the diffs is locked as well. It will probably get a two star safety rating because it's missing too much modern BS. I hope I've got the cash to buy one on 5 years time. :)
 

cam04

Well-Known Member
Different markets. One is a discovery, one is a defender/G-Wagen/76 series the way they were dreamed by many - well hopefully.
The defender is the FJ cruiser of Europe. Look at the specs, size and chassis and it is just another Disco with a body kit.
 
Last edited:

boobook

Well-Known Member
It does appear that Grenadier has designed their vehicle from the ground up to be reliable. I love the concept of the Defender and have it in my sights if I get a new 4wd, but it does seem to be aimed at the Toorak set and Greens voters. And earth banter aside, they will have to do a massive reliability backflip to make it reliable enough to be considered trustworthy. There are so many electronics in it, which is where a lot of complaints originate about.

But, making a vehicle from scratch won't be easy either, look at Tesla, now the most valuable car company. If you are near one, take a look at how the panels line up--- or not. If you bought a $15,000 car that was assembled as poorly as some of them, you'd be mighty pissed, but $150k and no two panels in line. sheez.

A reliable old school defender that is comfortable, doesn't leak oil, seat in line with the steering wheel, doesn't give you a bruised shoulder and sore elbows, and 0-100 in under 30 seconds. It has to be just a dream surely? But if they can do that, I'd even consider changing vehicles earlier. A billionaires dream may come true.

Either way ( defender or Grenadier) it will take 3 years or more to see if they are just another vehicle that spends much of its time in the dealer's service department, or something that changes the rules.

Here is a good sign they are taking manufacturing and reliability seriously.

 
Last edited:

discomatt

Well-Known Member
Look at the specs, size and chassis and it is just another Disco with a body kit.
Yes and no, it is the same but better angles so better off road, deeper wading depth better off road, better protection from water due to IP 67 ratings on all computers and plugs, better ability to fix electrical issues bigger and stronger suspension and steering components.
Same on all the other fronts so yep very same same but after owning a Disco 4 for 3 years and 60,000 km all I can say is if its the same thats not a bad thing when you look at reliability,ability and comfort.
No its not an out and out 4wd weapon when looking at it from old school thinking but that doesn't make it bad.
Should LR have built an out and out contender for what we consider a tough 4wd, yep possibly but the market is to small and I am sure smarter people than me decide those questions.
Which would I buy? probably the Grenadier for remote touring if its any good the same as i would have bought a 70 something if they were any good and didn't need another 60k spent fixing all there over priced short comings .
People think LR servicing is a big issue in Aus and say thats why they will not but one, the Grenadier will be 100 times worse
 
Last edited:

discomatt

Well-Known Member
Is France really better than the UK to build cars? what comes out from the frogs now isn't brilliant...
If going by where something is built Slovakia where the new Defer is being pumped out would be a better option, they have a long history of being a big car manufacturing country.
Only time will tell, I hope both end up good reliable options
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
Which would I buy? probably the Grenadier for remote touring if its any good the same as i would have bought a 70 something if they were any good and didn't need another 60k spent fixing all there over priced short comings .

I think that is the decision point. An alternative to the 70 which is comfortable, safer, and still has grunt would be attractive. The mines will always buy 70's as long as they can, based on economics as much as anything but for recreational vehicles, and farmers. It may hit the sweet spot.
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
Is France really better than the UK to build cars? what comes out from the frogs now isn't brilliant...
If going by where something is built Slovakia where the new Defer is being pumped out would be a better option, they have a long history of being a big car manufacturing country.
Only time will tell, I hope both end up good reliable options

Dunno Matt, its a bit of a race to the bottom, I'll agree. But both will be mile better than Slovakia. The company I was last working at switched manufacturing from Frankfurt to Slovakia. Not a massively complex product. After 4 years with massive reliability issues, low yields and hundreds of thousands of customer device swap outs, they are now looking to take it back to Germany or to Asia. It has been a disaster.
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
When you see the 70 series pretty much has the mining and rural sector to itself they don’t sell a lot of them so it is not a big market. Makes it tough for a newcomer to make it a viable venture unless you can broaden the market appeal to get the sales up

I think the biggest mistake LR have made is the new Defender is in competition with their other products more than their opposition
 

mikehzz

Well-Known Member
Spares, after market parts and dealer availability will be a big problem unless they really take off and become hugely popular. Although this can be a problem in other ways. See Suzuki have stopped production of the new Jimny because it is so popular. Why you ask? It has destroyed the company's pollution ratings. The ratings are calculated on the entire fleet and the Jimny has the worst rating. It has pushed the ratings over the limit due to extremely strong sales. Apparently they are re-releasing it next year minus the back seats and reclassifying it as a commercial vehicle to get around the issue. That's what I heard anyway, it may be fake news :)
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
Spares, after market parts and dealer availability will be a big problem unless they really take off and become hugely popular. Although this can be a problem in other ways. See Suzuki have stopped production of the new Jimny because it is so popular. Why you ask? It has destroyed the company's pollution ratings. The ratings are calculated on the entire fleet and the Jimny has the worst rating. It has pushed the ratings over the limit due to extremely strong sales. Apparently they are re-releasing it next year minus the back seats and reclassifying it as a commercial vehicle to get around the issue. That's what I heard anyway, it may be fake news :)

There seems to be some truth to that Mike. There are a few articles that contradict each other. Suzuki Australia said that it's business as usual. It looks like they are stopping selling them in Europe till they can make it a commercial vehicle, whatever that means.

I'd hate to see it go, it is massively popular and a good old fashioned fun 4wd.

The world is going mad, they have to stop selling it because it is too popular. Nothing is normal anymore.
 

dirvine

Well-Known Member
As I live in South Yarra (near Toorak) I can assure you you do not see any Defenders in Toorak. Also you would be lucky to see 1 or 2 Discoveries old or the New parked there. Its RR or nothing in that area. Dont even see LC, Lexus or GW Wagon there. People who live there want style before function, not the other way around.
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
Wow, I just looked at the pole results, not many voters but 3 have voted the Defer over the Grenadier:confused:
I would take the real 4wd any day, as good as the D4 is I would still prefer something with less electrics for remote travel because it is always a niggling thought in the back of the mind when we get off the beaten track
 

dirvine

Well-Known Member
Wow, I just looked at the pole results, not many voters but 3 have voted the Defer over the Grenadier:confused:
I would take the real 4wd any day, as good as the D4 is I would still prefer something with less electrics for remote travel because it is always a niggling thought in the back of the mind when we get off the beaten track
Hi Matt,
I will not take either until the reliability is established. But if I had to choose now, it would be the Defender because ATM LR does have a sort of dealer network. In any case my D4 is bigger and so far been very reliable with 135,000Ks on the clock in just on 4rs ownership
 

Paddler Ed

Well-Known Member
There seems to be some truth to that Mike. There are a few articles that contradict each other. Suzuki Australia said that it's business as usual. It looks like they are stopping selling them in Europe till they can make it a commercial vehicle, whatever that means.

I'd hate to see it go, it is massively popular and a good old fashioned fun 4wd.

The world is going mad, they have to stop selling it because it is too popular. Nothing is normal anymore.

Yep, it'll survive in Europe/UK as a commercial vehicle as it takes it out of their whole sales emissions numbers.

Also, by being classed as a commercial it'll save about £150-200 in rego in the UK as it's not that great on fuel:
1st year = £540
2nd year = £150
(which is better than the rules up until 2017.... then it would have been £205+ a year)

BUT the whole lot of Suzuki's sales need to have an average of 95g/km, as opposed to the 154 that a Jimny does...

 

Vesko

Active Member
For me there are three questions: How much the Grenadier would cost to buy in Australia, (plus the ongoing service/maintenance costs)? Is it going to be as comfortable as a Land Rover vehicle on extended 1000 km corrugated drive? Last, but not least what would be the fuel efficiency? Rock climbing abilities are not important.
 

cam04

Well-Known Member
For me there are three questions: How much the Grenadier would cost to buy in Australia, (plus the ongoing service/maintenance costs)? Is it going to be as comfortable as a Land Rover vehicle on extended 1000 km corrugated drive? Last, but not least what would be the fuel efficiency? Rock climbing abilities are not important.
Nothing rides corrugations like low unsprung weight (independent suspension with alloy components) and air suspension.
 
Top