Is it just my thoughts, or are 4wders their own worst enemies?

[Traveller]

Most of the time with standard (or close too) 4x4 dig ruts because of tyre pressures are incorrect or the track they pick the wrong track for their vehicle. People with good knowledge general do little damage to the track. You can't stop the idiots and they are there in bikes, cars, 4by's etc.

This applies to all vehicles, standard, tour set-up, and highly modified- it is always the
driver who does the damage-the vehicle alone is just the conduit for them.
Can say the same for guns-untouched they can't hurt you, bring a human in, and well....

sorry jok, it's so hard not to bite at times... its just that i fall into that catagory and just want to point out its not always the case.

Wasn't having a go at you Bainsy(you know where I live). Was just a general
reminder that most internet opinions aren't worth the paper they're written on, so why
bother getting upset. The remark was directed at all reading the thread, and I apologise
to you really, should have sent you a pm saying so! Funnily enough I've seen your rig
plenty of times and never thought of comp stuff

I think generalisation of all drivers of comp trucks and more modified 4x4s is called for in one way but not another . blame can be pointed at any driver of any 4x4 ,trail bike rider etc etc etc

so lets not point the finger

Modified your post a bit Matt, hope you don't mind

Really, 'are 4x4's their own worst enemy'? Bloody oath-look at the biatch slapping
and 'they do this' already in this thread Sometimes I think people should take a
good long hard look at themselves ( and the roadwothy-ness of their vehicles )
BEFORE posting at all. And remember; there is always more than one 'correct' way of
doing things- maybe your own is not above reproach

Righto, I've had my rant, vented a bit etc! I'll go back to quietly sipping my beer now

 

[bmurray2250]

So true, Traveller

 

[Grumpy]

Ok guys time to dump some of the Viagra, this is a great topic and I don't feel it's an attack on any one group, just peoples interpretation and thoughts, let's keep it rolling along.

 

[PAJ]

Either way no matter what people think about 4 wheel drivers, tracks will get closed. We won't be able to stop it. If we obey the track closures do you think they will re-open them?? How many closed tracks in Bunyip that were closed have been re-opened?

I'm all for respect to other campers and needless destruction, but how many tracks get rutted out due to nature? especially after heaps of rain? Any damage done by 4wd's is nothing compared to mother nature.

(Flame Suit on )

 

[bmurray2250]

Last year a politician was saying 4wd's cause major damage to beaches and makes them erode. I would agree with that statement if people were driving on the dunes but driving between the high water mark and to the water doesn't cause issues. One tide or storm changes the beach more. On Fraser Island one storm changed the beach so much that where were 4wd traps where you drop 500mm off a sand cliff. Nature is always changing and vegetation will over grow tracks every quickly. In 1 year a close track wouldn't be drivable because of regrowth

 

[ferozious]

A big problem regarding dangerous driving behaviour on the sealed road is that the offendors dont often realise that what they are doing is unsafe. This is especially the case for tailgating.
RTA statistics show that whilst younger, inexperienced drivers have a higher rate of accidents invovling losing control or driving off the road, its the older, more experienced drivers that have a higher rate of rear end collisions (41% of accidents from older drivers in NSW are rear end). This is because with age and experience comes the issue of "over confidence". Many people think that they are in control of their vehicle when travelling less than 3 seconds behind the vehicle ahead, but this is not the case.

AND YES, the 3 second rule means that you must be able to count "thousand and one, thousand and two, thousand and three" in the time the vehicle ahead passes an object and when you pass it, the WHOLE THREE SECONDS, NOT TWO, NOT ONE AND DEFINATELY NOT LESS, ON ANY ROAD WHETHER IT IS IN THE HIGHWAY OR CITY. Unfortunately, a VERY SMALL number of drivers i see on the road do this, and thats why rear end collisions remain the major cause of accidents on roads.
Its silly that the RTA and POLICE NEVER use media campaigns against tailgating.

To all you safe drivers out there, keep it up!

 

[ferozious]

Was taught many years ago to go into 4wdH as soon as I get on gravel roads & have always done so. Am sure many here will have been told exactly the same thing. I often put the paj in 4H when driving on wet bitumen rds for the reasons I mentioned earlier. If 4wd wasnt an advantage on gravel rds, why are all rally cars 4wd; better traction/ control etc.

If youve got a 4wd which has a centre differential, then its ok to engage on wet bitumen, but if its an older one with no centre diff, then you'll cause wind up wont you?

 

[Grey Ghost]

If youve got a 4wd which has a centre differential, then its ok to engage on wet bitumen, but if its an older one with no centre diff, then you'll cause wind up wont you?

Yeah something like my 05 Triton with only a transfer case, making it a part time 4wd will wind up its drive train nicely on bitumen or even a hard packed gravel road where there is no chance of any wheel slip or spin to release any tension.

 

[Swaggie]

Over Easter while coming back from Woods Point we went across to Big River,we went down two mile track (great track,steep in areas and pretty scenery,should put in track list if not already)...We came out near Stockmans Reward..Wanted to look at Dutch Joes.Anyway we pulled up at camp area (quite big) to just double check we where in right spot and low and behold there's a young sheila sitting in a camp chair pulling (smoking) a bong...Young kids around etc etc..

Just disgraceful behavior...

 

[allanmac]

If youve got a 4wd which has a centre differential, then its ok to engage on wet bitumen, but if its an older one with no centre diff, then you'll cause wind up wont you?

Not necessarily so. Am no mechanical whiz; far from it, but my understanding is that all the centre diff does is splits the drive between front & rear wheels 50/50 when engaged & vehicle is in 4wd. For example there are many full time 4wd vehicles, such as the 80 series & Landrover Disco. Am sure the early 80 didnt have a centre diff until a few years later in their production & those that do, have the CDL switch on the dash to activate etc. Without centre diff engaged, drive is 'open' so front/rear wheels are not forced to be turning at same speed, so there is always some 'slippage'. If centre diff is locked on hard surfaces with no slippage available, then the problems such as transmission windup can happen.... Maybe there are some vehicles that when 4wd is engaged that the centre diff, (if they have one), automatically engages...

Grey Ghost, I thought the Tritons has a similar 4wd set up to the pajero, so am interested to hear if that is not the case. Must admit & maybe I am a little biased, but the Pajero '4wd super select' system is hard to beat; gives the best of both worlds...

Sorry folks, probably not the greatest explanation & not really related to this thread..

 

[cptmud]

i belive in the 3 second rule but as soon as you leavr a gap, some one pulls into it, and i think this is the reason no-one leaves it. People today are always in a hurry and have no regard or consideration for anybody else on the road.

 

[Traveller]

Not necessarily so. Am no mechanical whiz; far from it, but my understanding is that all the centre diff does is splits the drive between front & rear wheels 50/50 when engaged & vehicle is in 4wd. For example there are many full time 4wd vehicles, such as the 80 series & Landrover Disco. Am sure the early 80 didnt have a centre diff until a few years later in their production & those that do, have the CDL switch on the dash to activate etc. Without centre diff engaged, drive is 'open' so front/rear wheels are not forced to be turning at same speed, so there is always some 'slippage'. If centre diff is locked on hard surfaces with no slippage available, then the problems such as transmission windup can happen.... Maybe there are some vehicles that when 4wd is engaged that the centre diff, (if they have one), automatically engages...

Grey Ghost, I thought the Tritons has a similar 4wd set up to the pajero, so am interested to hear if that is not the case. Must admit & maybe I am a little biased, but the Pajero '4wd super select' system is hard to beat; gives the best of both worlds...

Sorry folks, probably not the greatest explanation & not really related to this thread..

I've never had a look at a Paj, but from my understanding a centre diff was required in
'all wheel drives' to prevent wind up of the tranny. This was so the front wheels are independant of the rear wheels.
Once the centre diff was locked they became a '4 wheel drive' the same as locking hubs, engaging the 'little lever' on most
standard 4by's-patrol, cruisers(commercial type and 60's), Jackaroos, Hi-Lux, etc.

Good thread hi-jack too

 

[allanmac]

I've never had a look at a Paj, but from my understanding a centre diff was required in
'all wheel drives' to prevent wind up of the tranny. This was so the front wheels are independant of the rear wheels.
Once the centre diff was locked they became a '4 wheel drive' the same as locking hubs, engaging the 'little lever' on most
standard 4by's-patrol, cruisers(commercial type and 60's), Jackaroos, Hi-Lux, etc.

Good thread hi-jack too

U r right Traveller, my bad...

Earlier cruiser & disco 2001/2202 didnt have the centre diff lock but had the centre diff. Very badly written on my behalf; apologies

 

[Grey Ghost]

Allan, the earlier Tritons, like mine MK (2005) and earlier just had a transfer case but after the introduction of the ugly ones, ML & MN (2006 onwards) they came with the option of the "super select" with centre diff etc like the Pajeros, bout the only thing good they did to a great little workhorse unfortunately.

 

[croozza]

U r right Traveller, my bad...

Earlier cruiser & disco 2001/2202 didnt have the centre diff lock but had the centre diff. Very badly written on my behalf; apologies

When the 80 series came out in 1990 it had a centre diff lock.

 

[03gallagherj]

they arent a bad little thing those centre diff locks i own a 1995 Paj and when the terrain gets a little much for H4 throw her up to 4HL and it will crawl straight on through

same with the 80 series my mate owns a 1996 80 series and the Centre diff lock has gotten him out of trouble before too.

in the pajeros In 4H the front/rear torque split is 33:67, which can increase to 50:50, and the VCU is engaged, so basically its like a limited slip up until its locked giving power where its needed until you lock it

 

[croozza]

I also believe that from 1995 the 80 series had a viscious coupling in the centre diff, however it was still lockable via the dash mounted switch.
the torque split was suppost to be 50:50, however in the early ones it could even be as much as 100:0 front or 0:100 rear depending on how much wheel spin you got.
I know in my Prado it has the viscious coupling in the centre diff and I can still manage to get the front or rear wheels spinning when the centre diff is not locked, though not as much as I could in my old 80 series, so the viscious coupling does limit it a little.

 

[allanmac]

Thanks Croozer, I was under the impression that the there were a number of the 1st batch of constant 4wd 80's that did not have the CDL switch on the dash & it automatically locked when in 4L...

I also concede that those who do run 'part time 4wd' have to be far more careful when deciding when to select 4wd as to those who have the luxury, (for want of a better word), of being able to run 4wd hi range without the concern of transmission windup etc, due the fact of the centre diff & choosing 'unlocked or locked' mode.

By the same token, still cannot understand why so many do not engage 4wd & feel the need to drive as long as they can in 2wd & only engage 4wd when they have no other option... To me there is only one reason & the reason ' to look after the drivetrain' etc is not it. Just like saying; "I wont use a certain part of my anatomy as I dont want it to wear out".... Yes I know females may use that excuse, but dont think us males do...

And just to make me more frustrated; driving home along the Monash Fwy this afternoon & noticed a largish vehicle approaching at a fair rate of knots, even though it was raining. Moved over into the left lane & then after passing me, it proceeded to try to 'climb in the boot' of the car in front. As it was having no success in getting the car to oblige, it then decided that the flashing of the driving lights might have the desired effect...

No need to guess what sort of vehicle...

 

[tappets]

Life is tuff and full of frustration

 

[WILDTI]

Quote By allanmac - Just like saying; "I wont use a certain part of my anatomy as I dont want it to wear out".... Yes I know females may use that excuse, but dont think us males do...



What do you mean by this???????
This thread has gone so off track, please keep on the subject, there is no need to make comments like the above, if you need to rant make them in the 'What cheeses me off" thread