How to fit a Woodruffe key?

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Well everything was going sweet this arvo - refitting a new front oil seal on the Patrol. Then I stuffed up! I had cleaned out the the slot in the crankshaft that holds the Woodruffe key, and then after putting it in ( it was not a tight interference fit - just needed to be slid in with my fingers, I went to slide the balancer back on to the carankshaft, and of course lost sight of the channel position on the balancer ( key was set up to be on top of shaft ), and now the key has been dislodged into the motor.

So that is the first problem. I am hoping that I can just flush it down the sump with a few litres of petrol, and wash it out the drain hole. But would anyone know if using petrol is OK, or is that likely to damage any components. Hopefully the little bit that would touch some of the gaskets would not be a problem. Any comments with this idea. If this does not work I suppose I will have to take the sump off. Am thinking it would be a lot easier to just wash it out.

Next question is what would be the correct way to get the balancer back on. All I can think of is using some sort of 'engine friendly' glue to fix the key in place. Loctite No 3, gasket sealant, is not very suitable. No strength in it for this job. Does Loctite make something better? Or am I up the wrong tree with this idea?

The old seal was really 'cactus' compared to the amount of rubber on the new one. Looks like the oil consumption, and the mess under the car will be fixed once I get over this Woodruffe key issue!

Any ideas for either query will be much appreciated!

Thanks, Millsy.
 

BUSHNUT

Well-Known Member
what a barstard !

Well everything was going sweet this arvo - refitting a new front oil seal on the Patrol. Then I stuffed up! I had cleaned out the the slot in the crankshaft that holds the Woodruffe key, and then after putting it in ( it was not a tight interference fit - just needed to be slid in with my fingers, I went to slide the balancer back on to the carankshaft, and of course lost sight of the channel position on the balancer ( key was set up to be on top of shaft ), and now the key has been dislodged into the motor.

So that is the first problem. I am hoping that I can just flush it down the sump with a few litres of petrol, and wash it out the drain hole. But would anyone know if using petrol is OK, or is that likely to damage any components. Hopefully the little bit that would touch some of the gaskets would not be a problem. Any comments with this idea. If this does not work I suppose I will have to take the sump off. Am thinking it would be a lot easier to just wash it out.

Next question is what would be the correct way to get the balancer back on. All I can think of is using some sort of 'engine friendly' glue to fix the key in place. Loctite No 3, gasket sealant, is not very suitable. No strength in it for this job. Does Loctite make something better? Or am I up the wrong tree with this idea?

The old seal was really 'cactus' compared to the amount of rubber on the new one. Looks like the oil consumption, and the mess under the car will be fixed once I get over this Woodruffe key issue!

Any ideas for either query will be much appreciated!

Thanks, Millsy.


I would try using a magnet to drag it over to the plug hole first , I dont like the idea of petrol . Give Zordo a line first ?
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
I would try using a magnet to drag it over to the plug hole first , I dont like the idea of petrol . Give Zordo a line first ?

Thanks Bushnut. Will give Zordo a PM. Was feeling quite happy with my efforts until that happened! That's what it's all about I suppose - unless you are properly trained, we learn from our mistakes. That must make me an expert by now!
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
I would try using a magnet to drag it over to the plug hole first , I dont like the idea of petrol . Give Zordo a line first ?

You have got me thinking Bushnut. I reckon I will do a little experiment at school tomorrow. Am wondering whether the magnetic field of the magnet will penetrate through the pressed iron sump. ( Assuming it is pressed iron. I think it is. Don't think it is non ferrous. )

Have not really tried this before. I think most of us have dragged a nail across a table top as kids, using a bar magnet under the table. But will the same idea work if you have a ferro-magnetic substance between the magnet and the nail? My guess is that it won't. Will let you know how the experiment goes.

But on thinking a little further, I suppose the iron sump will become a magnet by induction, and be a particularly strong magnet right where the permanent magnet is situated. So you might be right. In that case might be a good idea to try it without first emptying the sump, because a bit of lubrication might help the woodruffe key to slide across the magnetized sump, since there is going to be a fairly strong downwards attraction. Then drop the oil, and with a bit of luck the key will just get flushed out in the process if it is near the drain hole, or at least I can get my little finger in and slide it out over the lip.

Will fill you in on what happened as soon as I can. Thanks again.
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Too bad I have not done a bit more thinkin'! Especially on how to earn a decent buck - or not to throw it away on FUIC and gliders. Then I could just go out and get a decent rig where the harmonic balancer still has twenty years of life left in it! Actually it was the oil seal that wore out.

But I remember when a balancer fell off the Torana down Naracoorte way years ago. The rubber joining the inner and outer just let go. Old age caught up with it. I usually fit a new one when I put in a new oil seal. But the Holden balancers are only $20 or $30, and I was quoted $280 for a new Nissan balancer yesterday! So might have to think about finding a cheap second hand one to put in the spare parts bag, just in case the same thing happens to the Patrol out bush. And remember to pack the puller in the tool kit!

Wonder what's ready to 'let go' next. Am pretty sure the previous owner had the brakes done up recently, and he told me the clutch was just done. And its got new wheel bearings! So maybe its just the rings. I wonder how thin they are?!
 
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millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
I would try using a magnet to drag it over to the plug hole first , I dont like the idea of petrol . Give Zordo a line first ?

Well Bushnut, I tried the experiment with a magnet under a sheet of iron. Did not work. I think the magnetism is just spread out sideways through the iron, and so the strength is lost as the magnetic field lines are channelled sideways. I sprinkled a few iron filings on top of the iron plate, and you could just barely see the outline of the magnet in the filings.

So now I am thinking about making up a little 'fishing line' with some plastic or rubber tubing and a small strong ceramic magnet taped onto the end. I will cast into the hole at the front, and maybe with a piece of stiif bent wire, bend the tubing downwards behind the 'drop off' where the front timing cover drops down into the front of the sump. Its still pretty shallow there, so won't need a very long 'line'.

If I try a few casts into slightly different locations I hope to catch something. Maybe a nice Woodruffe. Might give a bit of a fight as I try to get it up the front of the sump, and over the edge. But then I should have it 'in the bag'!

Otherwise I'll just have to drain the sump, and if it does not wash out, pull the sump off.

Cheers, Millsy.
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Good luck Millsy

No luck BEK. Fishing was not good last night. Not one bite, and got the line snagged and nearly lost the lot! But luckily it let go in the end and I pulled it all out.

So will try the kero flush tomorrow, and then if that fails, take the sump off.
 

rodw

New Member
You got to love the life of a DIY mechanic Millsy. I helped my son out earlier this year (March) to buy his first car. Then decided we better do the timing belt. Just putting it back together with about half an hour to go and stood up from under the car on one foot. Bang! my menuiscus cartilege in my knee let go and I went down in a screaming heap. Off to hospital to stitch the cartilege back together and 4 weeks in a splint and another 3 weeks on crutches. Becasue of this, my outing to Moreton the other day was the first time camping all year.... But I did manage one day trip on crutches...

One thing I learnt through this experience. People mechanics charge more than car mechanics..... It would have been cheaper and far less painful to get somebody else to do it....
 

BEK

4x4 Earth Contributer
No luck BEK. Fishing was not good last night. Not one bite, and got the line snagged and nearly lost the lot! But luckily it let go in the end and I pulled it all out.

So will try the kero flush tomorrow, and then if that fails, take the sump off.

Ouch Good luck

By the way I'm with Rod on this one Millsy

I am, blissfully unaware of a the Elle Key and hopefully I won't need to find out

Car doctors are worth what they charge providing you trust them that is
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Bad luck!! That's a lot of pain for just trying to do the right thing and help your son. Hope he remembers that when you need his help one day! Hope that knee holds up OK!

I find it a challenge, and a bit of rush, when you are learning new skillls, tackling something for the first time. You never know how its all going to turn out. Sometimes luck is against you, and sometimes its just ignorance. In this case it was a bit of both. I did not realize that the key had to be a tight fit. Pretty obvious now that I see how easily it was pushed out!

When it fell, I tried to retrieve it with a screwdriver. Bad luck, it was not a magnetic screwdriver, and I had not noticed the danger. Then when I rushed in and it slid off the edge off the blade, it just hung on the edge of the drop off. It seemed to hang for a couple of seconds, eyeing me off, as I tried desparately to get a fresh grip on the screwdriver. Then as I started to reach in for a second try, it just said 'too slow mate' and did a little backflip over the edge!

But gee it feels good when you have jumped all the hurdles and finished the job!

Will have to shop around tomorrow to see if I can get a new one of the right size. I picked up a second hand one from the local re-conditioner, so I can use it to get the right size.

Cheers, Millsy.
 
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millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
I think Simmo has to take the prize for jumping hurdles! With all the effort he has gone to to get his Surf back up and running, and the let down of it still not going, he should be throwing a big celebration party when its all over!
 
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millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Well I think I have it all fixed. The car is not registered at the moment, so in a couple of weeks I will put it back on the road and get a few kms under the belt before the next trip out bush. Started it up and sounded OK. No oil leak now. So looking forward to seeing how the oil consumption works out on the next trip. I am hoping that this was the leak that the car had since I bought it, but I thought it was from the back seal. Much harder to fix! With a bit of luck there is no leak from the other end, it was just oil being blown back that way from the radiator fan. Still have an oily mess to clean up from under the car - especially the driver's side engine mount. Hopefully not too badly damaged as yet.

The kero flush did not work, and when I took the sump off there was the key, sitting about 15cm into the sump, with another 20cm or so before it dropped down into the deepest section with the drain hole.

The slot in the crankshaft was the problem. It had worn a little wider than it should be. So I cut a small rectangle of thin wet and dry paper, folded it under the key and with a centre punch tapped it into the slot. I made sure the front of the key was right down flush with the crankshaft so that there was every chance that it would not get pushed out. Sure enough, as I pulled the balancer back on it was fairly tight for a while, but then it became a lot easier. I was hoping that did not mean the key had been pushed out the back.

But I took the bolt back out when I had finished and poked some wire up the slot in the balancer. It bottomed out where the key should be. Then used the torque wrench to re-tighten the bolt to specifications ( 150Nm). So hopefully all solved. Time will tell!

So thanks all for your suggestions, Millsy.
 
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