Help with engine trouble codes. (Kia Sorento BL

#1
Hi All. I'm trying to get back on the road after my last failed camping trip and was hoping that I might get some help.

Firstly I am having serious engine troubles on my Kia Sorento 2006 BL EX.
I have noticed that the Tacho stops working or fluctuates (bearly moves dial) and at the same time that I am getting misfires on all cylinders. As soon as the tacho starts working again the engine runs smooths again (could be 1min to an hour before it happens again, though usually, it happens again in a matter of minutes).
I did have this in at the mechanic just before my trip for this same problem, and they blamed E10 and replaced the spark plugs. $600 later and I would like to see if I can solve this problem myself. I can't afford to keep taking it to a mechanic even if I wanted to so I'm hoping that I can get some help otherwise I will just keep replacing parts until I find the fault.

My cheap eBay OBD2 scanner reports the following codes.
P0350 - Ignition Coil Primary/Secondary Circuit
P0300 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0301 through P0306 - Cylinder 1-6 Misfire Detected.


Initially, I thought it was the Ignition Control Module Unit (Detects Failure to Start \ Misfire Sensor) as this appears to be an extremely common part to fail on the Sorento BL (Backed up by the fact that every time I find a parts car of the Sorento that sensor is missing as its taken first). I have ordered one of these (from China, if it works for a day then I'll buy an OEM one) and it will come in the next week, but with the new code of P0350 it sounds more like it might be the coils or spark plug leads.
To replace the leads or coils on this car I have to pull so much of it apart, from the wiper assembly through to the intake manifold. I'm hoping to only do it once, to have less chance of screwing up my car.
Another thing that I found that may play a part is the crankshaft sensor. I don't have any idea what is involved in changing that out but don't think it would be a small task so would like to try the aforementioned ideas first.

Any help on this one would be awesome. I'm a little scared of doing more harm then good so if there are any pitfalls to watch out for please let me know.
I'm obviously limited my tools and knowledge, but even if I can rule out a bunch of stuff before taking it to a mechanic that would be a big help. Right now the mechanic I took it to before said that the next step is replacing the coils, but he wants $140 each for them so that's not happening (almost worth scrapping the car that that point). I won't be going back to him anyway as he wouldn't listen to me when I was trying to explain the issue and ended up replacing parts that were not at fault (although I'm sure they would have needed replacing, I need to solve this other issue first).

Secondly and a very minor second at that. My doors seem to lock again when trying to unlock the car.
Basically, if I hit the unlock button and it sounds like its stuck somewhere, it either locks right away or it locks\unlocks a bunch of times. Right now I just hit the button and then grab the door handle before it has a chance to lock.

What worries me is if I leave the keys in the car and it decides to lock.
My plan here was to open up each of my doors and see if I could disconnect the central locking and then connect them one by one until I found the faulty one. Before I went and broke the seal on my inner door trim plastic, I wanted to know if this would work, or if it would crap itself because it detects the other doors are not connected.

Again and help with what I can try or if I'm heading down the wrong path etc would be extremely welcome, even if there is something for me to watch out for such as I may need to replace X gasket to access X sensor or whatever. I'm no mechanic, but I used to work as a panel beater with my old man when I was younger and as such, I am familiar with cars and quite happy to pull it apart and back together again as long as I don't stuff something up that I'm not aware of (like messing up the timing or something).
 

dno67

Well-Known Member
#2
Is your alternator charging constantly?
Check all earths ?
Chech engine cpu, could be a broken wire or bad earth.
There's a lot of problems with some vehicle's wiring quaility, causing similar engine problems. Holden astra comes to mind as l has a family member just gone through something similar.
Now a suzuki owner.
 

rogerazz

4x4 Earth Contributer
#3
Some years ago my Daughter bought and drives a Kia Carnival. One day it stopped and it was towed to her home. Local mechanics could not fix the problem even though they replaced parts. So eventually she took it to Kia, not that she wanted to. They diagnosed the problem and she had to wait for import of parts. It cost an arm and a leg, they did reduce the cost to help her but it still cost over $3,000.00 . Over the years I have found mechanics who specialize or like working on certain vehicles and have prolems with others. This seems to be the same with auto elecs. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and wear the cost or else you trade the bloody thing.o_O
 
#4
@dno67 Alternator is still working fine. I will look at my earths (I'll need to see if I can google where they are). I have been over my wiring and fuses a bunch of times. I haven't found anything but that's not really saying anything :)

@rogerazz this thing only has a standard Mitsubishi engine I believe. The car was not overly expensive so I'm happy to learn myself and if it breaks learn a valuable lesson (as long as I'm not doing something too crazy). There is two of these out at pick and payless so might be able to get some cheap parts to swap out and see how things go and then once I find what makes a difference buy an OEM one. The only problem is its a 2-hour drive to there so i don't want to have to do too many trips.

My problem is that I don't have any mechanically minded friends so I need to learn from youtube but that doesn't help with the diagnosis. I know I should see a mechanic, but it's going to take me months to pay off the $600 I racked up last time. I can't just keep paying for something unless I am assured that it will fix it (which they obviously can't do for good reasons). I'd really rather learn myself not only to save money but also if I'm off road somewhere and something goes wrong it would be good to at least have an idea of what everything is and what it does. I may not be able to fix it permanently but if it helps me get to the nearest town that would be a win in my books.
 

dno67

Well-Known Member
#5
If it's any help the astra was doing something very similar, engine emissions light would come on, engine would.randomly stop and not atart again. Fouled plugs from miss fire, new plugs, then next vistit for same issues. New coils, problem
still existed car kept stopping with a code indercating an engine problem. Finally went to the local stealer and was diagnosed with a fualty ecu. All work was.carried out by machanics including services, as roger has mentioned the right workshop with thw right knowledge and experience can save a lot of money. Trouble is finding the right workshop.
Done plenty of research online and had come to the conclusion it was a ecu problem as its very common, holden dealer 100% confirmed and replaced. Problem solved but who knows for how long as it's apparently due to poor quaility wiring and could happen again due the eregular voltage at the ecu.
 

Hoyks

Well-Known Member
#6
I'd track down the crank angle sensor and check that its not loose and that the face of it is clean. Also run your hands over the engine bay looks to check that there aren't any bits chaffing on anything.

The problem with computers is that they are only as good as the information they are fed, if that starts messing up, then all sorts of problems can ensue.
 
#7
I'd track down the crank angle sensor and check that its not loose and that the face of it is clean. Also run your hands over the engine bay looks to check that there aren't any bits chaffing on anything.

The problem with computers is that they are only as good as the information they are fed, if that starts messing up, then all sorts of problems can ensue.
I think they also have a cam sensor that the tach runs from.
 

Colly18

Active Member
#9
@dno67 Alternator …………….. I will look at my earths (I'll need to see if I can google where they are). I have been over my wiring and fuses a bunch of times. I haven't found anything but that's not really saying anything :)

@rogerazz this thing only has a standard Mitsubishi engine I believe. ……………………..

.
Good on you for wanting to learn a bit more about your vehicle and to self-diagnose your problems.

First up, just check on the engine make/model. A quick look on Wiki and I found this (I'm not sure Mitsubishi and Hyundai are the same engine)

"First generation Sorentos are equipped with a Hyundai-manufactured 3.5L 24-valve DOHC V6 engine producing 192 hp (143 kW) at 5500 rpm, and 217 lb⋅ft (294 N⋅m) of torque at 3,000 rpm."

A thought on your locking/unlocking problem. Experience tells me if I have a door or maybe bonnet or boot not properly shut when I go to lock a vehicle it will do as you suggest - lock-unlock repeat (having a hissy fit until you wake up to the fact that you need to ensure all doors are shut and windows are up (?)) before it will successfully lock on first push of the button. It's a 'dependent on make' thing, so maybe just read your vehicle manual about vehicle locking procedures and double check all the doors, etc. are shutting fully in the first place and your windows are up? (Just a thought on my part).

I'm not a qualified auto-electrician, but I manage my vehicles OK as a DIY/home mechanic. My thoughts on your misfire issue, (sometimes it runs OK up to an hour so the fault is an irregular issue ), are as others have suggested - either; ignition system earthing problem fault somewhere; ECU or related computer control fault; maybe dodgy sensor; maybe a few coils/leads failing at once (?)

I wonder whether the guys that replaced the plugs did it all correctly? If you paid them $600 to fix the problem and they didn't, get back to them and suggest they check their work and provide you with a solution. You can only try!

If you haven't already done so(?), so my advice is join your state motoring organisation for roadside service (RAA, RACV, RACQ, etc). It may cost you $150 but will prove to be money well spent. Then you have the option to call them out to diagnose the problem if it gets worse (or if you lock your keys in the car).

Failing all else and to be honest - IMO sometimes the best solution is to get it to a Kia dealer workshop and say I need a diagnosis and quote on repair, I can only afford to pay you $180 for I.5 hours, get to it and tell me what the problem is, thanks. A Kia dealer should have the best diagnostic equipment and be able to find the problem in a short time. Reality is owning cars costs money, unfortunately!

Good luck sorting it out.
 
#10
Just spoke to a mate. Hyundai mechanic 100% Crank angle sensor and he would be surprised if it's not. Also said easy job. He did ask if you have had the cam belt changed or if it is due
 
#11
Thanks guys. I don’t get paid for a fortnight but I’ll look to change out the coils, leads, camshaft sensor and the crankshaft sensor once I do. In the mean time I’ll keep checking for dodgy wiring but I’ve checked all my connections quite a few times.

I first noticed a lack of power only when returning from Newcastle to Sydney. Something about the mountains after a long drive made me lose power, and I thought it was a transmission slipping (felt like a clutch slipping in a manual). This happened about 3 times over about 6 months.
Then I was returning from about an hour further north on a crazy hot day just before new year and it was really bad (honestly didn’t think I’d make it home). Again it felt more like something slipping then a misfire but no codes were thrown yet.
Then I took it in to get a green slip and all this started were it’s misfiring.
It was not a mechanic that I would usually trust (messiest place I’ve ever seen. Ever).

I think if I replace all this and I still have the issue I’ll have to go into a Kia dealership.

I’m trying to find some info on replacing the two sensors, I’m fairly sure that they are on the other end of the two cables on front of my engine labeled CAS and CPS. Assuming that stands for Crank Angle Sensor and Crankshaft Position Sensor.
These go in through the plastic covers on the timing belts where I was hoping to avoid, so I’ll do these last.
6E7BD655-9F75-4D3B-A5A9-B320002B267D.jpeg
This pic is same model but I snapped it from a parts car as it had radiator removed so I could access them. Mine look the same.

Lastly I do have Woolworths roadside assistance, but I’m more worried about being somewhere off road and knowing nothing about the machine that got me there. That’s why I’d rather just learn what I can. If I break this then next time I’ll just get Ford or Toyota dual cab with high KMs to balance the cost and start again :)
 
#12
Just spoke to a mate. Hyundai mechanic 100% Crank angle sensor and he would be surprised if it's not. Also said easy job. He did ask if you have had the cam belt changed or if it is due
It had a minor service just before I got it and the timing belts had been done. But not sure about any others. I assume they would do all of them in there at same time though.

I do have the receipt in my car somewhere, that how I knew the timing belt was done. I’ll dig it out tomorrow and see if it mentions anything else.
 
#13
It had a minor service just before I got it and the timing belts had been done. But not sure about any others. I assume they would do all of them in there at same time though.

I do have the receipt in my car somewhere, that how I knew the timing belt was done. I’ll dig it out tomorrow and see if it mentions anything else.
If the timing belt has been done you should be fine
 
#15
So looks like this video shows the sensor inside and it looks like it can be done without messing with the belts.
If my understanding is right.. as the gear below rotates, this sensor reads the speed of the engine (by measuring the teeth) for the tacho and also is used to calculate when to fire the spark plugs.
If that’s the case it definitely sounds like it would be the cause.
If I had a faulty lead or coil I’d expect the misfires to be near constant or at least getting worse.

Maybe I’ll do it all in reverse then. Replace these two sensors (with OEM parts), then if that doesn’t work I’ll do the other from the following pay check. I’m not using it for work anymore so I can take my time
 
#17
SOB.. that little Ignition Control Module I got from China came at the same time as the crankshaft sensor.
I thought I'd just throw it on anyway as I had to use the car in the morning but didn't have time to replace the crankshaft sensor.

Wouldn't you know, the little $30 piece of junk fixed the problem. Drove for 3 hours in traffic without any issue at all.
I did initially think this was the problem (hence why I ordered one months ago) but the more I looked into it, I realised that no one else had the issue with tacho and misfires as well so I started looking elsewhere.
Now I've got a camshaft sensor from superchearp and I probably don't need it. Might have cost me an extra $140 for a part I don't need, but that was still better than going back to the mechanic. At least I'll have a spare :)

It still really annoys me that it cost me $600 to replace sparkplugs at that mechanic when if he had listened to me explain the issue or even driven it himself instead of just blaming e10, he would have realised its not that. In fact, I kept asking how it could be a spark plug\coil\leads if it's on all cylinders.. surely they wouldn't all fail at the exact same time. I would expect only 1-2 cylinders to fail in that case.

I've only driven it yesterday, but it does appear to be fixed. The tacho started working and no misfires at all (although it may be idling a tad too low).

I have no idea how this sensor works though, I haven't really found any information on it apart from some guy on youtube that talks about how to test one electronically. Does anyone know how it caused my tacho to stop working as well as cause misfires when it's only supposed to be looking\checking for misfires?
 
#19
Well.. hopefully, it's fixed. I've gotta go for an hour drive this arvo.. if it's still working at the end of that I'll assume its resolved.
Next on to the door locking issue, followed by aircon (oh how I miss aircon).
 
#20
Well, I guess the biggest problem is now all fixed. I've driven it quite a few times over the last week and its been running fine. I also got a chance to take off my rear tail light and empty out all the water which I have been meaning to do since before Christmas :) There must have been about a 3 cups of water inside the housing. all the way up to the 2nd globe. Very lucky it never shorted out.

Next, I'm going to look at the doors locking again when I unlock them. I didn't really want to break the dust seal on all the doors, but I can't see any other place that this issue would originate from. I guess its something on the actuator that is sticking, so I'll have to get it out to give it a visual inspection (you know, see if it's on fire, or maybe it turned in to a stick. Something obvious like that). This issue always seems to be worse in summer, as soon as it starts cooling down it only happens every so often so might be a bugger to track down now it's in the colder months.
 
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