HELP Please.... I have run out of ideas.

cokeaddict

Active Member
Between 70 /80 kms I get this roaring grumbling noise through the drive line.
Having the car up on 4 stands and running in 4wd High at around 80kms it sounds real bad. Noise is still there with or without wheels on or off the car.

4th gear the sound is there at around 80kms speed mark.

In 5th gear the noise comes in around the 70km mark (so lower revs) Not as loud as 4th gear but still telling you its there.

get under the car and try to find the source seemed easy as it was really loud at the rear of the transfer case Just before the drum brake. So assumed it was the bearing in the transfer case.

Had the transfer case replaced but noise was still there. 3 people (me included) were convinced that it was the back of the transfer case so I told the shop to replace it. Sadly though nothing changed. Thats 400 bucks gone :- (Not the workshops fault as it fooled us all)
Get the car back home and Back up on 4 stands and did another "process of elimination" run. The stands used were sitting on the diffs and they are 6 ton each industrial stands. no cheap thrills here.

1st run: 2wd...NO NOISE

2nd run: 4wd high, around 80kms noise is "felt" and heard through the car.

3rd run: 4wd low range, still there but no where near as loud I think this was mainly due to the fact that it was friggen hard to get up to 80kms in low range :)

4th run: removed front tailshaft, no noise in both high and low range

5th run: removed rear tailshaft, ( both F&R shafts off) run at 80kms no noise in both high and low range

6th run: fit front tailshaft on and at 80kms noise is back BUT now sounds like the front diff. The noise itself is strong and loud near the front diff flange area. Still can be hard at rear of T/F case like originally but now louder at the front diff near flange.

Uni joints are fine and new. I checked them on bench many times. All good here.

So after many checks I pulled the front diff out today and took it to a diff shop here in cranny, Sadly though the guy called me and told me the diff is fine and cannot find anything wrong inside so I gave the order for him to replace the bearings now that its out anyway, not cheap at around 450 bucks damn it. I wont get the diff back until tuesday now due to easter weekend
Any other elimination processes you guys can suggest I check when i get the diff back?
 
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Swaggie

Moderator
Have you had both tailshafts checked (balanced etc)... They get hit by rocks etc from timeto time..
 

dno67

Well-Known Member
Have you checked all mounts like engine, gear box and even exhaust ?
I would also check fan belt tensioner's, I had a ******* of a time tracking down a vibration and it turned out at certain revs a fan belt would vibrate enough that it was touch a bolt that was missing
an idler for the aircon.

Did the noise just start, or has it suddenly got worse ? Did something happen before the noise started ?
 

ULost2

Well-Known Member
might be telling you how suck eggs here but: use a bush stethoscope......long screw driver..bit pipe/steel rod....even a length of timber.......place that on various components and hold the other end close to your ear while the vehicle is on the stands ...... thinks safety please.

as you move from one component to the other you should be able to pick up where the sound is worst and coming from.

I would be thinking g/box going on what you have said. The bush stethoscope might also point to front or back of g/box if I'm guess correctly. Might be a chipped/broken tooth on a gog.

have you dropped the oils to look for bits of metal?

Only guessing really; good luck with it.
 

cokeaddict

Active Member
Ulost2
stethoscope was used first time only to make the rumble/ growl sound stronger at the back of the transfer case near the drum. This proved to be an expensive FAIL. That was not the cause as the replacement transfer case did not change anything.

I was on a day trip in the high country with a 10 car convoy checking out huts, I ran most of the day in 2wd, nothing worth 4wd for the dry dusty day. Until around 1pm, we got to some steep - rough stuff so 4wd was locked in. After about 30 minutes of easy driving in 4wd (more coasting than anything else) light throttle stuff I got the first sign of the noise. after that it was constant so I went back to 2wd for the rest of the trip.

I am beginning to think the gearbox too but going from the tests I carried out there was no indication of the gearbox being the cause but like you say mate, it could well be..I sure hope not.

Yes all oils were clean but changed them all anyway, even diff oils. I always change oils every 24 months as a rule. All oils came out spotless with no signs of metal.
Thanks for your input mate. No egg sucking was carried out ...YET !!!!
 

cokeaddict

Active Member
dno67...
will check the mounts out tomorrow thanks mate...Im too buggered to do any more tonight.
Thanks again for that suggestion.
 

cookie64

4x4 Earth Contributer
From what I read it only happens when the front diff is running (4wd)

2wd OK
Transfer Case OK
Front Diff OK

have you checked your wheel bearings & hub assy, as when front diff is running it will obviously run the front axles maybe hence the noise is evident at the right resonant frequency

cheers
 

muc the truck

Well-Known Member
dno67...
will check the mounts out tomorrow thanks mate...Im too buggered to do any more tonight.
Thanks again for that suggestion.

Any sideways motion in the drive shaft spined slip couplings ? none should be felt . If there is you need new shafts .


This is a must have item for nailing worn bearings . You can hear the difference with a worn bearing to a good one . I know you said you changed the tcase but just because the noise your trying to get rid of now is till there does not mean the tcase was ok . You could have a few problems at once . NEW Mechanic Stethoscope Automotive Engine Diagnostic Test Tool Auto Testing KIT | eBay
 
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millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
I had a similar problem with my MQ Patrol soon after I started using it in 4x4 mode. It took me three months and three mechanics to finally find the problem - a dry ball joint in the middle of the double Cardan joint on the front drive shaft. Mechanic #3 narrowed it down to one of the two uni-joints on the Cardan joint. But as I was replacing it I discovered the ball & socket joint hidden under the yoke in the middle of the Cardan joint. It was bone dry. Had probably not been greased since leaving the factory 25 years earlier!

Luckily for me none of the 20 or so needle bearings inside had broken. But the clunking noises would have been the needle bearings jumping over each other, inside the small ball joint. I pulled the ball joint apart, washed it all in kero, including all the separate needle rollers, and put it back together with plenty of grease. Problem solved!

As it happened the new uni-joint I had purchased was the wrong size. So I just put it back in again. The problem must have been the dry ball joint.

The grease nipple was very small, and hidden under the darkness of the yoke. I had to buy a small 'needle' adapter for my grease gun to get onto it. But now, when I grease it up, I actually just take the front shaft out of the vehicle to make the job easier, and make sure I actually get grease into it

So, do you have a double Cardan joint at the transfer case end?
 

cokeaddict

Active Member
Any sideways motion in the drive shaft spined slip couplings ? none should be felt . If there is you need new shafts .


This is a must have item for nailing worn bearings . You can hear the difference with a worn bearing to a good one . I know you said you changed the tcase but just because the noise your trying to get rid of now is till there does not mean the tcase was ok . You could have a few problems at once . NEW Mechanic Stethoscope Automotive Engine Diagnostic Test Tool Auto Testing KIT | eBay

Shafts are all good thanks.
All new uni joints for both shafts. Slip joint in shafts are both tight and solid.
I have eliminated tail shafts as a cause as I have tried other tail shafts with the same problem.
Thanks again for the suggestion mate.
 

ULost2

Well-Known Member
sounds like a total rebuild from the chassis up with all new components. That will fix the noise (and few you don't know about) but we still will not know what the noise was :rolleyes:

Sorry
the smart arse :D
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
He's back :D:D:D

Howdy Millsy

Hi Chris. Been very busy on Facebook these days lol. And cycling taken over from running around in the Patrol. Next 4x4 trip might be next winter - Darwin and Cape York maybe. Doing a trip to WA in the VT Commy in a few weeks, so this years fuel dollars all accounted for. Going to Perth and then up to swim with the whale sharks at Ningaloo. Should be interesting.

Hope all good with you and yours.
 

RoughNReady

Member
As it happened the new uni-joint I had purchased was the wrong size. So I just put it back in again. The problem must have been the dry ball joint.

The grease nipple was very small, and hidden under the darkness of the yoke. I had to buy a small 'needle' adapter for my grease gun to get onto it. But now, when I grease it up, I actually just take the front shaft out of the vehicle to make the job easier, and make sure I actually get grease into it

Must be going around. It too me two tries to get the right size u joint.

sorry for the slight derail but please tell me about this adapter? the only way I can get grease into the nipples on the trunnions in the U joints is to remove the shafts so the joint can be pivoted hard, and then use my grease gun to spurt grease everywhere because the nipples are slightly smaller or a different shape or something. With 3 shafts it's not a fun job and one I still need to complete.

a while back I was convinced i had a bad bearing in the rear axle. Even bought a new bearing kit for it. ended up discovering that it was a slightly loose mounting bolt for one of the rear suspension links bushings causing a sound that sounded exactly like a stuffed bearing. moral is check EVERYTHING.

Back to scheduled programming.

is it an auto or manual? Probably silly but could it be a stuffed throwout bearing? has everything underneath been checked for clearance and vibration? any shiny metal underneath anywhere?
 

millsy

4x4 Earth Contributer
Must be going around. It too me two tries to get the right size u joint.

" the only way I can get grease into the nipples on the trunnions in the U joints . . . "

Not sure we are talking about same thing. I was having trouble greasing the little nipple for the ball joint between the uni-joints. My Patrol Cardan Joint consisted of uni-joint (standard cross shape ) then the ball joint (which was hidden under a yoke with just its small grease nipple barely visible next to edge of the big yoke) and then another uni-joint at the other end of the Cardan joint.

Not sure if all Cardan joints are constructed like that.

But here are a couple of pics I took to show you what I mean by the needle adaptor. Even with this needle adaptor I find it better to remove the drive shaft, and get it fully flexed, to get the needle tip poked firmly into the little grease nipple.That way I know grease is actually getting inot that ball joint and lubricating all the roller bearings inside, and not just oozing down the outside of the nipple.

Its been a few years since I bought it, but I think the long needle, with the little .4 or .5mm hole in the end, also had just one fitting on the end. I couldn't remove it from the 'jaws' of my greaze gun, so I just left them on it and went and bought another set of jaws for my gun. So it looks a like there are more fittings on the end than actually come with the needle. I just bought it at my local Sprint auto parts store I reckon.

And here is a link to a thread I put up a few years ago;

http://www.4x4earth.com.au/forum/mq...-joint-have-you-got-one-have-you-greased.html
 

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Dirt nut

New Member
I've had something like this before, it turned out to be the front drive shafts vibrating in the the axle tubes where they run on the bushing. Maybe have a look at that, greasing the bush & shaft was enough to fix the problem in my case. Hope this helps.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

cokeaddict

Active Member
Noise all gone, after many days and a changed transfer case, it just vanished.
Up on stands AFTER the transfer case was changed, it was no different in either high or low at light throttle. Replaced all uni joints (they were due anyway) Then the noise changed, now it came from the front pinion bearing area, even with the stethescope the noise now came from the pinion brg front diff.
So decided to change it, old brg was fine so (annoying) I put that all back together and while i was at it serviced the front diff with all new seals and bearings.
Been off road a few times and has not been heard again. So I will put this one down to "Buggered If I Know"
 

Buxter

Well-Known Member
Could it be your Manual Locking hubs,. ?
May have done a cir-clip, or the front axle has somehow moved out..?

Or a hanger bearing, on the tailshaft ,..?
 
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