Help me understand how Solar is cheaper at home.
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Albynsw
Well-Known Member
Yes but that is my point, the load for charging EV’sis at night when you are trying to run your household off battery
LongRoad2Go
Well-Known Member
Apparently, with new EV technology, the idea is to plug the vehicle into the household socket at night and the residual power in the battery powers the grid. Since the new tech batteries charge extremely quickly and are on timers, come the morning peak, the cars are recharged and the grid functions normally. No forgetting hydro, wind, geothermal, etc all contributing to the grid in different ratios.
Admittedly, sounds good in fantasy ... er .... theory, but lots of issues in reality ... not to mention unforeseen events like terrorism, EMP/Solar disturbances, etc.
Renewable hydrogen seems more the reality, but still a long way to go with that too.
In the meantime, plant a few trees, grow a veggie garden, and use more public transport!
Toyasaurus
Well-Known Member
The main motivation is not being shafted by the power companies.
Not having to worry about blackout`s, we have quite a few here.
Yes it saves me money, it also helps me do some small thing for the enviroment.
My system is probably going to pay for it`s self in about 13yrs, at current rates.
If I don`t pull the pin on the grid.
Now that the new legislation is through, that basically allows the power companies to commit highway robbery.
Not having to worry about blackout`s, we have quite a few here.
Yes it saves me money, it also helps me do some small thing for the enviroment.
My system is probably going to pay for it`s self in about 13yrs, at current rates.
If I don`t pull the pin on the grid.
Now that the new legislation is through, that basically allows the power companies to commit highway robbery.
Albynsw
Well-Known Member
All sounds good if it works, the issue they are having in the States is that there are not enough charge points in the condos and the grid won’t support the bigger load so connection is denied by the authorities.Apparently, with new EV technology, the idea is to plug the vehicle into the household socket at night and the residual power in the battery powers the grid. Since the new tech batteries charge extremely quickly and are on timers, come the morning peak, the cars are recharged and the grid functions normally. No forgetting hydro, wind, geothermal, etc all contributing to the grid in different ratios.
Admittedly, sounds good in fantasy ... er .... theory, but lots of issues in reality ... not to mention unforeseen events like terrorism, EMP/Solar disturbances, etc.
Renewable hydrogen seems more the reality, but still a long way to go with that too.
In the meantime, plant a few trees, grow a veggie garden, and use more public transport!
I imagine we will have similar issues as our power demands increase, the grid was never designed to be used in this fashion.
People associate renewable and solar as cheap energy from the sun but I don’t think it will pan out that way. Infrastructure changes will be costly
Albynsw
Well-Known Member
I can understand why this will happen.
Subsidised home systems has had a negative impact on the viability of commercial supply systems. During the day the energy providers are giving away their generated power as there is often too much but they are needed during the peak periods and at night so effectively only get to sell their product in peak times and carry the system the rest.
Solar has reached saturation point, we produce too much of the stuff and need a storage solution to move to the next phase
Albynsw
Well-Known Member
Well I bit the bullet and have ordered a 10kw system with 28 panels to be installed in January
I had a bit of a look at batteries with the enticement being backup power for blackouts but it does not really help as you can only have one dedicated circuit which is of no benefit in my situation and would still need to run my backup generator
The system I have ordered is big enough that I could add them down the track if I wanted to
I had a bit of a look at batteries with the enticement being backup power for blackouts but it does not really help as you can only have one dedicated circuit which is of no benefit in my situation and would still need to run my backup generator
The system I have ordered is big enough that I could add them down the track if I wanted to
Kippie
Moderator
We had two phases as well. I dedicated one phase to the electric water heater, replaced its original heating coil with a 1.8 kW one and connected it to a 3kW PV system with its own inverter. The other phase covered all other power and was connected to a 6kW PV & 10 kW lithium battery. This setup worked well.
cookie64
4x4 Earth Contributer
Just going through this Merry Go Round again after moving house, the new place is all on 240vac, no gas, no water, so aiming for a neutral living experience, except for Council Rates & Emergency Services levy. Currently looking at 6.6Kw PV Array with 12Kw battery storage, one thing to note here in SA is that SAPN have the ability to turn off your solar if it deems necessary to stabilise the grid.
Yet the big retailers, AGL etc, are installing more & more PV Arrays, the problem here is that they are contributing to the oversupply of Solar on the grid yet SAPN turn off the householders - how is that fair.
I am making sure that we have enough battery storage to continue on required circuits when they shut our solar generating power off.
There is a 3 phase transformer in the paddock near us so may augment to 3 phase in the future if we start running out or getting high power bills which we could then max out to 15Kw.
Clipsal Solar is leading the race at the moment
cheers
Yet the big retailers, AGL etc, are installing more & more PV Arrays, the problem here is that they are contributing to the oversupply of Solar on the grid yet SAPN turn off the householders - how is that fair.
I am making sure that we have enough battery storage to continue on required circuits when they shut our solar generating power off.
There is a 3 phase transformer in the paddock near us so may augment to 3 phase in the future if we start running out or getting high power bills which we could then max out to 15Kw.
Clipsal Solar is leading the race at the moment
cheers
Kippie
Moderator
I've heard about the system where the power company can turn off your export into the grid. But I assume that your PV system would still power your house even when export is terminated. Is that correct?
cookie64
4x4 Earth Contributer
No, the PV needs to detect incoming power or it will not start, the new powers given to the power networks allows them to turn off your PV so you are then consuming the power from the network - bit of a rort me thinks.
cheers
SA can turn off export, and WA is about to introduce it. But only for new installations. Export turning off is different to solar going off when the power stops. That's called anti islanding.
As to batteries. I have tried to justify them, but they are just not economical, I need 24 years for the payback, but they only last about 10 or so. The only 2 use cases are to have power for blackouts, and if you need to be off grid regardless of cost.
With 18kw of solar and my use which includes an aircon, I need about 20kwh of battery that can deliver 10kw. For about 1 day of use in winter. That's about $20,000 with a payback of about $850 per year. Forget it.
As to batteries. I have tried to justify them, but they are just not economical, I need 24 years for the payback, but they only last about 10 or so. The only 2 use cases are to have power for blackouts, and if you need to be off grid regardless of cost.
With 18kw of solar and my use which includes an aircon, I need about 20kwh of battery that can deliver 10kw. For about 1 day of use in winter. That's about $20,000 with a payback of about $850 per year. Forget it.
If you are in SA yes, if you are in Perth, hurry, elsewhere no.
cookie64
4x4 Earth Contributer
According to my sources, No, they shutdown the PV Array, when they do that you are only sourcing your energy from batteries and even then only to select devices on "maintained" power circuits such as your fridge/freezer, lights and maybe GPOs, but not A/C, Cooktops / stoves and electric hot water systems
cheers
Toyasaurus
Well-Known Member
This is why I love my system,
Island`s it`s self during blackouts and the solar goes on as normal.
If the batteries are charged the system limits its self to what the house is using at the time.
Island`s it`s self during blackouts and the solar goes on as normal.
If the batteries are charged the system limits its self to what the house is using at the time.
You're right. Apologies. I thought they just shut export off, but no they want you to create demand. That may not be a lot of money but it does suck.
Kippie
Moderator
It kinda defeats the purpose of going solar; on a sunny day when solar production will be maximised they may shut you down just when you are charging your batteries etc. How would you know the grid is unstable? You'd have to trust the power company to do the right thing.
I would go off grid.
It does suck. But going off grid would cost $20 to $30k to save about $10 per year when the solar is cut off. That can never pay for its self.
Also they aren't applying it retrospectively, so if you getv it before, they can't do it.
Albynsw
Well-Known Member
I only have single phase available to me so I can only feed in a max of 5kw. The reason I still decided to run with a 10kw system is because the modelling ( if it is correct) shows a payback for a 6 and a10 to be roughly the same so it is only a short term additional layout but then my power bills will be lower ongoing