Help me understand how Solar is cheaper at home.

Toyasaurus

Well-Known Member
Good on him.

Due to the crap weather we had over the last month, I got my first bill, $22.00
I guess that shows me how much the price has gone up.

Note to self, must do better.
 

phs

Well-Known Member
We have 3 quotes, but still not sold on what system

like the functionality of micro inverters but don’t like the fact they are not really a viable option if you want batteries

Then there are optimisers which seem to be good but if one lets go it shuts the whole system down

next on the list is panel manufacturers which one lol there are so many and every sales man just pushed there kick back product as the best

then there is the local power providers rules about how many KW system you are allowed Because they want to sell you power not the other way around…..

Still more research to be done
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
We have 3 quotes, but still not sold on what system

like the functionality of micro inverters but don’t like the fact they are not really a viable option if you want batteries

Then there are optimisers which seem to be good but if one lets go it shuts the whole system down

next on the list is panel manufacturers which one lol there are so many and every sales man just pushed there kick back product as the best

then there is the local power providers rules about how many KW system you are allowed Because they want to sell you power not the other way around…..

Still more research to be done
Confusing huh?

On the last one, in Victoria, I think the distributors govern the amount you can feed in, called the export limit. AFAIK, they don't have rules about how big your system can be so long as your inverters are set to the required export limit. All inverters support this, it's part of the standard. United has a limit of 10kw and most are 5kw. This will be set by your installer and is well understood in the industry. The confusion comes for the wording. They talk about a size limit. But when you apply you can apply for the export limit instead of the solar size limit.

I am pretty sure it is similar in other states. It your export limit is determined by your distributor.

So AFIK you can have a 50kw system so long as it is limited to 5kw of export in most areas. It's the distributor that sets that not the retailer. But then you also find that some retailers that offer a premium feed-in tariff place a cap on the number of kWh of export. Most don't have a cap if they pay the standard feed-in rate.

My advice is to get as many solar panels and capacity as you can afford and the roof allows.

It is bloody complicated but still worth it.
 
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Komang

Active Member
@boobook
Not sure in WA, when I got the panel installed only 6,4kw and I ask the supplier to add another 4 panel from my expense they said they can’t do that as per rule normal dwelling max 6,6kw.
I love to add another 4 panel at the back that will be 1,2kw power for summer afternoon
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
@boobook
Not sure in WA, when I got the panel installed only 6,4kw and I ask the supplier to add another 4 panel from my expense they said they can’t do that as per rule normal dwelling max 6,6kw.
I love to add another 4 panel at the back that will be 1,2kw power for summer afternoon
Yeah, I think WA is the toughest of the toughest, and crappy feed-in tariffs. They appear to have tightened in it Feb 22. Take a look here.

A good reason to get in quick because they usually grandfather the clauses.

 

Toyasaurus

Well-Known Member
PHS,
I don`t know where you have been getting your info from but.
Panel inverters can be used with batteries, I have then feeding my tesla`s.
It just means that you don`t have DC current running round in your roof, AC is safer so I was told,
Also less power drop over distance, and if you lose one the rest keep going, lose a main inverter and the entire system goes out.
As for opitmisers the whole point of having them is if one panel get`s dirty or clap`s out or shaded it dosen`t drop an entire string of panels.

Hope that clears things up a bit.
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
PHS,
I don`t know where you have been getting your info from but.
Panel inverters can be used with batteries, I have then feeding my tesla`s.
It just means that you don`t have DC current running round in your roof, AC is safer so I was told,
Also less power drop over distance, and if you lose one the rest keep going, lose a main inverter and the entire system goes out.
As for opitmisers the whole point of having them is if one panel get`s dirty or clap`s out or shaded it dosen`t drop an entire string of panels.

Hope that clears things up a bit.
True.

The issue is the use of AC coupling or DC coupling. Micro inverters should work with AC-coupled batteries such as the Teslas. But they will not work with DC coupled batteries which need hybrid inverters. Most batteries I saw that allow battery back up are DC coupled. The notable exception being the Tesla which supports AC coupling and backup. There are a few more and a few that are both AC and DC compatible.

Unless you specifically want Tesla or have a lot of patchy shade on the panels, then I think hybrid systems offer the best performance/value proposition. Make sure you get ones that support your load ( KW) as well as the KWH capacity.
 

Toyasaurus

Well-Known Member
I forgot that tesla is in the minority of systems that can take AC.

But you can still use panel inverters if you are using something like a Selectronic unit, they do tend to be able to take multiple supplies.
Expensive, but very good and aussie made.
 
I am looking into getting Solar at home. Either I am doing something wrong, or the whole thing is a complete rip off.

Currently, I pay 24.5 cents per kWh including discounts etc. However, If I get Solar panels, I can't get that rate, and the cheapest tariff I can find is 39 cents per kWh. I live in Melbourne so the panels will really only generate power for part of the year. Also the feed-in tariff is only about 9 -12 cents depending on the time of day.

So the way I figure it, after spending several thousand dollars, I will end up with a higher electricity bill. I keep reading how people save thousands with solar and their bill shows the rebate. But to me, it looks like they save money but on a higher overall so no saving at all.

What gives?

Edit fixed feed in rate
Hi boobook, lots of reply's', to a hot topic , we have a 6kw system, BUT we live in the mid west of western Australia, and find them extremely worthy we do get lots of sun all year round,with very few completely cloudy days all day, it comes down to a personal choice of dollars,
other factors are
the panels have a limited life, and get less and less efficient over their life
differently made panels have better efficiency as well, eg - German to Chinese ,but the cost varies as well, it's about your budget
I'm currently 60 and know full well that I'll have to replace my panels before I retire (if I ever can :rolleyes: ) in order to maintain the benefit we get back , we get approx about 7cents per KW thingy back on the watchamacallit ,
I believe " Dr Karl ( krushiniski?) " from triple J and sorts gives really good explanations on everything solar
good luck
 

phs

Well-Known Member
PHS,
I don`t know where you have been getting your info from but.
Panel inverters can be used with batteries, I have then feeding my tesla`s.
It just means that you don`t have DC current running round in your roof, AC is safer so I was told,
Also less power drop over distance, and if you lose one the rest keep going, lose a main inverter and the entire system goes out.
As for opitmisers the whole point of having them is if one panel get`s dirty or clap`s out or shaded it dosen`t drop an entire string of panels.

Hope that clears things up a bit.
Yes you can use micro inverters with batteries but your converting AC back to DC via an inverter again, over complicated as the panels are DC then inverted to AC then back to DC again. Well that’s the way i understand it works

also not sure the Tesla will provide UPS backup ?
 

phs

Well-Known Member
Confusing huh?

On the last one, in Victoria, I think the distributors govern the amount you can feed in, called the export limit. AFAIK, they don't have rules about how big your system can be so long as your inverters are set to the required export limit. All inverters support this, it's part of the standard. United has a limit of 10kw and most are 5kw. This will be set by your installer and is well understood in the industry. The confusion comes for the wording. They talk about a size limit. But when you apply you can apply for the export limit instead of the solar size limit.

I am pretty sure it is similar in other states. It your export limit is determined by your distributor.

So AFIK you can have a 50kw system so long as it is limited to 5kw of export in most areas. It's the distributor that sets that not the retailer. But then you also find that some retailers that offer a premium feed-in tariff place a cap on the number of kWh of export. Most don't have a cap if they pay the standard feed-in rate.

My advice is to get as many solar panels and capacity as you can afford and the roof allows.

It is bloody complicated but still worth it.
Thanks
we are looking at about 11-12kw of panels
We could fit more panels but I think that amount should be ok for us.
 

Toyasaurus

Well-Known Member
Yes mine`s is UPS backup.
The app shows me every time there is a power outage, just goes to auto islanding, still charges during the day.

Your quite right about panel inverters, would be a waste to reinverte power like that.
Optimisers would be better.
 

Toyasaurus

Well-Known Member
Hi guy`s.
I found this on Utube.
This guy`s has some interesting thing`s about battery storage.
Some of the battery types you can get over here.

 

boobook

Well-Known Member
Here is a link to SOK batteries.


That's about 2/3 of more traditional brands @Toyasaurus, but doesn't include the rack, wiring, charger and inverter. Do you know what Australian equipment it is compatible with? I can't see any listed on their web page, they are all US brands. Do you know if they can support outages?

I guestimate it will not be too much different to a fully integrated package when all is added up. Hopefully, I am wrong.
 
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Toyasaurus

Well-Known Member
I had a quick look at growatt`s page on their inverters.
I`m not too sure which is which for backup and such, I`ll give them a call on monday and let everyone know.

I think that Victron will work with just about anything, also Selectronic, but they are very expensive, also about the best there is.

Form what I could find with Growatt they range from $1500-$5000.
But as I said I`m not sure which is which.
 

Rusty Panels

Well-Known Member
I can't tell you much about it but my inverter is a Growatt 10.6 kWh 3 phase and is battery compatible and uses an app through the wi-fi to monitor what's going on. So far so good, averaging around 38kWh per day.
 

RBJET

Well-Known Member
Hi guy`s.
I found this on Utube.
This guy`s has some interesting thing`s about battery storage.
Some of the battery types you can get over here.

Been watching this guys video's over the weekend and found them very informative.
I'm looking at setting up my shed to be off grid and trying to decide whether I go 12/24/48V.
 
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