Have your say in the future of 4x4earth!

Gavo

4x4 Earth Contributer
Hi
I'm pretty sure if you post up about a trip and for people to join you that's enough for possible legal action....
We've talked about this heaps. Is this true???
My problem is I think logically. And have no legal experience. But my take is, each person is licenced, to drive their registered vehicle.
You're going for a drive public roads. That licence and registration means you're responsible for your actions.
If you try and drive a rocky section and roll. That's your fault.
What court is going to to blame the guy on the internet that got a group of like minded people together.
Everything you are doing that day is based on your licence and your registration.

I don't doubt it would be a different situation if I organised a trip and everyone came to my property and drove my buggies.
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
We've talked about this heaps. Is this true???
My problem is I think logically. And have no legal experience. But my take is, each person is licenced, to drive their registered vehicle.
You're going for a drive public roads. That licence and registration means you're responsible for your actions.
If you try and drive a rocky section and roll. That's your fault.
What court is going to to blame the guy on the internet that got a group of like minded people together.
Everything you are doing that day is based on your licence and your registration.

I don't doubt it would be a different situation if I organised a trip and everyone came to my property and drove my buggies.
Inclined to agree, another take on it, if as a group of friends there are 3 cars driving to a party and 1 driver says I know the way so follow me he is not liable for any accident either of the other 2 drivers has on the way to the party...

Yes your honour I was following another vehicle down the road and I crashed so he must be liable... BS
 

lucy40

New Member
I'm a member of a U.S (cast boolits) site not a 4Wd one, its basically a site like this where members contribute to its content ,Once a year they sent an email to all registered members for a donation"" whatever you can afford please donate" it does come with a story about the site keeping it running.....etc etc.Which does not force people a set joining fee and I think the more a person is using the site the more or less they would pay .Its all set up through your Paypal account. I'm not P.C correct at any time, I like "For a good Route" it gets me at attention..... Sorry.....meant '' it gets my attention '' my two cents
 

Gavo

4x4 Earth Contributer
Inclined to agree, another take on it, if as a group of friends there are 3 cars driving to a party and 1 driver says I know the way so follow me he is not liable for any accident either of the other 2 drivers has on the way to the party...

Yes your honour I was following another vehicle down the road and I crashed so he must be liable... BS
Exactly.

Also might be different if you charging customers for the trip. I'm sure the the Tagalong tour guys would be registered companies with appropriate insurance.

Now back on topic I guess.....
 

dno67

Well-Known Member
Another possible source of income might be giving members the opportunity to advertise there
business in there signature with a picture. Maybe offer 2 different sizes, in return for some financial support.
 

Swaggie

Moderator
sound like a bloody good weekend, where is the waiver to sign I'M IN !!!........btw, LOGIC and the LAW should never be in the same sentence !

This came up also, you cannot waive your right to common law...I'm not a lawyers a hole but am just going off what's been stated in the past...
 

Swaggie

Moderator
Inclined to agree, another take on it, if as a group of friends there are 3 cars driving to a party and 1 driver says I know the way so follow me he is not liable for any accident either of the other 2 drivers has on the way to the party...

Yes your honour I was following another vehicle down the road and I crashed so he must be liable... BS
We've talked about this heaps. Is this true???
My problem is I think logically. And have no legal experience. But my take is, each person is licenced, to drive their registered vehicle.
You're going for a drive public roads. That licence and registration means you're responsible for your actions.
If you try and drive a rocky section and roll. That's your fault.
What court is going to to blame the guy on the internet that got a group of like minded people together.
Everything you are doing that day is based on your licence and your registration.

I don't doubt it would be a different situation if I organised a trip and everyone came to my property and drove my buggies.

There is a reason why 4x4Earth doesn't run trips extensively like 4wdTrip. I was there when he was warned about the possible ramifications in doing so.
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
There is a reason why 4x4Earth doesn't run trips extensively like 4wdTrip. I was there when he was warned about the possible ramifications in doing so.

But if the site is not officially organising it and is just being used as a method of communication for like minded people?
Perhaps the trip section should be setup more as a notice board to be used by members than construed as official Earth events?
I know another forum that does it that way so they stay arms length from any outings
 

itlldoo

Well-Known Member
what about signing something about personal responsibility to clear the leaders,, I accept all responsibility for my own $&@& ups sort of thing at the start !
This came up also, you cannot waive your right to common law...I'm not a lawyers a hole but am just going off what's been stated in the past...
 

adamjammo

Member
what about signing something about personal responsibility to clear the leaders,, I accept all responsibility for my own $&@& ups sort of thing at the start !

I do believe you can, sign a 'declaration' acknowledging your gear, passengers and possessions are sole responsibility of 'driver' and participating in for say 'convey' and do so at own risk... etc etc
 

chuin

New Member
Hey ,all I need is a BSB and account number to make a 'donation' each year. The 'overpriced sticker' mentioned earlier is a good idea to say who contributes and is good advertising. While not a major contributor to forums, I have learned so much and get a lot of information from the site. Well worth it.
 

adamjammo

Member
Hey ,all I need is a BSB and account number to make a 'donation' each year. The 'overpriced sticker' mentioned earlier is a good idea to say who contributes and is good advertising. While not a major contributor to forums, I have learned so much and get a lot of information from the site. Well worth it.

I actually want a 'looking for a good route' sticker for the Hilux!
 

rogerazz

4x4 Earth Contributer
I repeat this idea, which has no legal ramifications, which does not require donations, sponsorship, fund raising, efforts only by some, whatever.
Each member gets a discount of say 15 to 20% off any purchases , special sales drives, etc, at a store that sells motor products. This store could be one of hundreds of an Australia wide company. Anything from vehicle parts, service parts, 4wd accessories, towing accessories, etc. etc.
The company would give a kick back / commission of say 5 % back to this site on each sale. So that if we buy we get and if we don't buy we don't get which would suit the company. They only pay out on sales.
Even if you bag a particular product, others will still buy whatever, the company still gets sales and this site gets the kickback/ commission. I buy from whom I like and am careful, however I just don't go for not buying a product because of someone elses complaint.:rolleyes:.
Lets say out of fifty thousand members, about three thousand members spend $100.00 each p.a.= $300,000.00 p.a. X 5% kick back/commission = $15,000.00 p.a.
I would buy filters, oils, plugs and other service stuff. The odd spare mechanical parts like brake pads, rotas, engine parts, drive parts, exhaust parts radios/uhf, lighting stuff, tracks, camping gear, towing gear you name it I get it.
Benefits go to members via discounts, benefits go to this site via kick backs/commission, benefits go to the retailer via sales. Win, win, win.:D
Ok, so now lets go out and sell this idea to a major Australia Wide company.
 

Madlandy

Active Member
Don't check in for a couple of days and boom!
 

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cliff abbott

New Member
As a relatively new 4x4er I have used this site for track notes and picking up general info. From a newby perspective, a few of the comments above really appeal. I've just bought a polo and basic merch is a great idea but it needs to be simple to avoid holding tons of stock. Getting one-off deals on gear is also a top idea - someone mentioned as an example a deal on maxxtrax where you get options on 200 units at a discount from the suppliers This could extend to a heap of items from tie-downs to lighting etc and avoids the issues associated with holding stock. Stickers would be a winner. Having access to driving trips would also be fantastic. Once again, from my perspective, I am lacking beach driving experience and would love to have the opportunity do do some of this with other drivers who know what they're doing. There are legal issues but I doubt that these are insummountable and if a trip fee was required to cover the insurance costs - so be it. As mentioned earlier, tagalong tours manage to do it and I'd reckon 4x4 earth members would be fairly open to mishaps - its all part of the fun!
The track notes are important but I use them to find tracks and make up trips, not necessarily as a detailed guide to what the track conditions will be. You just have to read track notes from the tons of printed material out there to discover the wide base of opinions about track difficulty etc so it is important to adopt the detail as a general guide only. A means of recognising a member who has updated a track note may help keep the notes current ie a flash page with recent updates listed, free sticker etc - or name and shame those of us who haven't!!
 

Jason Hayden

New Member
Yep for longer than I've been here it's served only as bad advertising, delete it and add a new version later if and when funds allow. At the moment it just frustrates new members.
It is interesting. As a fairly new member, who hasn't been here a lot, the tracks database and associated map is exactly what I am looking for. Maybe there is a possibility to work with wikicamps, rather than duplicating - that way the camping side of it would work well, and those of us who want 4WD tracks would also potentially have more regularly updated information.
 

Jason Hayden

New Member
I know not everyone will want a shirt, hat, or stubby holder, but considering the thousands of people who visit the site, I did expect there to have been more than 57 orders to date.

I just placed order number "000000058".

I just placed order number '66'....... ;)
 

goldrush

Moderator
I do believe you can, sign a 'declaration' acknowledging your gear, passengers and possessions are sole responsibility of 'driver' and participating in for say 'convey' and do so at own risk... etc etc
Won't hold up in court. A racer at a local track came off his bike, and even though he had signed a waiver stating that he knew the risks and undertook them willingly and that the track owners were exempt from responsibility in the event of an accident, the resulting lawsuit almost sent the owners bankrupt.
 
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