GVM upgrade uncertainty

[Jesshil]

Hey all,
Just in the process of ordering the new hilux... I was advised by Norweld that I should get a gvm upgrade as I’m probably going to put one of their Al canopies on in the future.
I’m probably not going to be willing to afford it for a good year.
I was told it’s cheaper and smarter (due to being able to reg in all states) to do it prior to rego.
I’m going to be driving the car 90 percent unloaded with just a tray... when I’m driving the car will it feel a lot less smooth with a gvm upgrade?? Or will it be just as good? I was thinking about using Ironman 4x4, they do the 500 odd upgrade.

Cheers for the help

 

[mac_man_luke]

It will be horrible with a GVM upgrade but no load

Better off trying to keep the load under standard GVM if you can, will be nicer to drive and gentler on the vehicle anyway.

IMO add weight then sort the suspension to suit.

 

[Paul Jamo]

I’m in the same situation and considering a gvm upgrade for a new ranger, not sure if it’s a good idea to do the upgrade prepurchase? I will have the vehicle loaded most of the time with canopy, drawers, racks and tools?

 

[Jesshil]

Thanks for the reply mate... probably worth just upgrading suspension down the track a little for peace of mind. But not doing full gvm? Just so it’s reliable for when I’m loaded up to the hilt. I’ll sign the dotted line tomorrow

 

[mac_man_luke]

I’m in the same situation and considering a gvm upgrade for a new ranger, not sure if it’s a good idea to do the upgrade prepurchase? I will have the vehicle loaded most of the time with canopy, drawers, racks and tools?

If loaded up all the time it is worth doing pre-rego as it national then and you will need it anyway.

 

[Paul Jamo]

If loaded up all the time it is worth doing pre-rego as it national then and you will need it anyway.

Thanks

 

[Trophy truck 481]

it would be a big benefit to do it before rego, as they are allowed to do a lot more than later, and once done can be sold to any state with the GVM as a big plus

 

[Jesshil]

The only issue is I don’t want it to feel like crap when I’m unloaded... which is I’ll be nearly all the time?? :/

 

[Paul Jamo]

it would be a big benefit to do it before rego, as they are allowed to do a lot more than later, and once done can be sold to any state with the GVM as a big plus

I think you’re right it may be worth the extra dollars to get it done pre reg. Thanks

 

[Albynsw]

it would be a big benefit to do it before rego, as they are allowed to do a lot more than later, and once done can be sold to any state with the GVM as a big plus

What do you mean by being allowed to do more than later?
I did mine post registration as it gives you more flexibility to choose the suspension components that suit you best and your engineer then certifies that whereas pre rego you have to stick to the designated part numbers.
The only disadvantage I see with that is that the certificate is not recognised in another state if I ever moved or sold it interstate but I don’t see that being a big deal, If you really wanted to you could just get it recertified in another state

 

[barnsey062]

I have called a few of the main suspension suppliers about getting an upgrade on my old cruiser & all have told me that they will only do upgrades on new unregistered vehicles, & that my only option is to buy an upgraded suspension from them & then to go and get it engineered at my own cost somewhere else, a new unregistered vehicle would work out a lot cheaper to be upgraded before it is registered as you won't have to pay the extra cost of having it engineered later.

 

[Albynsw]

I have called a few of the main suspension suppliers about getting an upgrade on my old cruiser & all have told me that they will only do upgrades on new unregistered vehicles, & that my only option is to buy an upgraded suspension from them & then to go and get it engineered at my own cost somewhere else, a new unregistered vehicle would work out a lot cheaper to be upgraded before it is registered as you won't have to pay the extra cost of having it engineered later.

The engineering cost for me was about $1,000, the end result cost wise was same same pre or post rego.
I would think the reason they say that is that they don’t normally deal with engineers and just like to fit up the gear and get it out the door,

 

[Paul Jamo]

Alby I had the same info the suspension upgrade is the same whether pre or post but there is an extra cost for the certification. Think I’m going to save myself some upfront cost and just get the suspension upgraded and do the gvm upgrade later if I need it.

 

[2luxes]

The best way to get a GVM upgrade that is going to give you maximum safety and reliability is to buy a bigger car. All these GVM upgrades do is make it legal to load the car up to the maximum capacity of the axles. You now have the car running right on the limit with nothing left in reserve. The new springs will support the new load with ease but the rest of the car is still standard and under a lot of stress particularly if you take it off sealed roads. Then there is the extra stress on the drive train and engine cooling system. The car will also take longer to stop.

Many owners do it. Some get away with it and some don't. There is no way of knowing what is going to happen.

It is hard to say how it will ride with stiffer springs and either no load or very little. A lot depends on the design of the springs.

My older Hilux has three long soft curved leaves in the rear springs plus two shorter, thicker and flat leaves. I had them out of the car years ago when it was only three years old. I placed one upside down on the garage floor and tried bouncing up and down on it while hanging on to a roof rafter to avoid falling off. I could not believe how soft those three main leaves were even with my little 68 kilos on them. When you load the car though, they support a full load perfectly and I have confirmed that on a weigh bridge. With it up to the maximum capacity of the axles, which is over GVM, a spirit level on the tray showed there was still a very slight down hill slope to the front and plenty of clearance between the axle and bump rubbers.

That did not surprise me though. Toyota did not design it to sag at the rear when fully loaded with the load correctly distributed.

If your car is a dual cab, then don't forget a major part of its load is supposed to be in the five seats. Toyota told me they work on 85 kgs per person plus 15 kilos for clothing and all the other things people put in the front. That is half a tonne up front if you want to fully load the car without over loading the rear end. This is most likely what their engineers were working on and that is only average weight. Many people are way above that these days. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...j69i59j0l4.13473j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Paul Jamo]

Thanks for the info it’s good advice.

 

[dangermouse]

Hi all, I have recently bought a 2017 Hilux dualcab with intent to run a lift off camper in future.
When discussing suspension options with ARB, of the larger GVM upgrade they offer, which requires 600KG constant load springs, in their opinion in regard to a lift off scenario insurance may be void as when you remove the camper [to go to town/collect fire wood/drive anywhere]clearly you don't have 600KGS on board anymore and therefor have compromised handling. Subsequently we went for 350KG + airbags and may have to revisit lift off options.
Can anyone clarify in regard to legalities of this situation.
Cheers.

 

[mac_man_luke]

I dont think you would have a problem insurance wise but it will be horrible to drive.
Sometimes you might be better off speaking to an engineer as sometimes you can get the GVM upgrade without the constant springs, i know ultimate suspension suggested this was possible when i had my ranger.

 

[dangermouse]

Thanks MML, yeah I know what your saying 350KGS+bags is rough enough with no load I reckon 600KGS would be shocking.
We currently tow a double axle offroad trailer,probably 1.6T ish with camping gear and a couple of kids trail bikes on the ute ,bout 30-40 PSI in the bags ute sits level and drives nicely.Clearly a camp trailer would be a much simpler solution but a lift off was preferable in future for track access etc.

 

[Albynsw]

The advantage of going with someone like Ultimate Suspension ( I am sure there are others) is that you can get a customised setup done whereas the big guys like ARB etc have a one size fits all tick a box system which might be fine but they cannot change it and get it certified

 

[Gidgee]

2luxes is right, after lots of research there's a big difference between road legal and handling like original in an emergency situation. Manufacturers spend huge sums of money getting their vehicles as safe as they can afford to be, whereas engineering cert is just that the the components and safety system will cope with the higher load but will certainly not be optimal. Will your GVM upgrade be crash tested? tested swerving? tested in a loss of traction situation? road tested at all? If not, would you put your family in that vehicle? To be fair, who knows at what loading manufacturers test at, but I know some do test loaded up for extremes in handling.

There are ways to save GVM, get a lighter bullbar (alloy/plastic), lighter drawers (Kings are crazy heavy), put your passengers on a diet. Worst case, a trailer, probably cheaper than a GVM upgrade and cert.