Dmax diff lock
- Thread starter Jackolux
- Start date
Who believes a saleman
But yes, I agree, nothing about a LSD for the current model Colorado in any specs that I can find so will be interested to know what model eightyeight is referring to below
Definitely no LSD or diff lock in a current model Dmax
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Eightyeight
Member
Who believes a saleman
But yes, I agree, nothing about a LSD for the current model Colorado in any specs that I can find so will be interested to know what model eightyeight is referring to below
Definitely no LSD or diff lock in a current model Dmax
LTZ MY14 (and in my LTZ MY13)
They are STD across all models by the book.
I have inspected both (of mine) while on stands and on/off road.
The rear LSD is worth it as the factory traction control will only curb slip to a point, but with the LSD in the rear it is not an issue for rear traction. It's only when the front gets a bit elevated that power is lost through the front and traction control cannot deal with it. Thus the rear LSD would be enhanced with fittiment of a front locker (future planned).
I do not agree that's it's totally useless. It has its place. Sure it's not a locker, but it's free and does a great job on the rear. Haters gonna hate
http://www.holden.com.au/resources/documents/colorado/Colorado_PhaseII_Carline_Brochure_low-res.pdf
Checkout my ride in My Colorado build Thread!!!
muc the truck
Well-Known Member
normally lsd is deleted with traction control . normally one or the other. when a lsd is incorporated with traction control the brake lines to the rear are usually a single line .
The best traction control has 4 individual brake fluid circuits .
I am wondering if you have 2 separate brake lines from the diff or just one.
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Eightyeight
Member
Nah not the case.
Even 2wd (RWD & FWD) have LSD's in vehicles with traction control. And it's very effective, noting that "traction control" is not just brake application. In some cars it will incorporate a spark or fuel cut to achieve effect.
Also of note is that individual lines are required for vehicles equiped with stability control or whatever termed initialism the manufacturer has for its yaw control.
Checkout my ride in My Colorado build Thread!!!
muc the truck
Well-Known Member
The best traction control has 4 individual brake fluid circuits .
in the 4x4 world I was talking about like land rover discovery etc not fuel cut as often used in the family sedan that may brake traction on a wet road once in a blue moon.
you need to be able to target the offending wheel loosing traction to have a good traction control system and land rover is a good example with it working on 4 wheels independently . that cant be done with a lsd as effectively.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEd4qdvN8_U
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Why not? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.
If each wheel can be indiviually braked by the Traction Control, and the vehicle does have a LSD, and one wheel spins, then surely the TC will activate and apply that wheel's brake. Doesn't TC work by sensing if a wheel is spinning? The sensing of the spinning wheel would have nothing to do with the type of diff I'm guessing. Thinking both TC and LSD could work harmoniously together.
Thanks
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Eightyeight
Member
Definitely agree the Rover TC is great, my mate ha a 110 TD5 that proves itself time and time again.
The point I'm trying to clarify is having an LSD does not meant there is no individual brake line to said diff. Or vice versa as you suggest.
As an example, when the front is elevated and unweighted, applying power allows a single front wheel to spin, and the TC applies the brake to said wheel in order to limit all power being lost through said wheel. This is only effective to a point. Depending on conditions ect ect it is helpful in reducing front spin and I can still drive out of said hang up. Now if both front wheels are struggling for grip it's even harder for the TC to keep under control. So as previously stated its not a perfect solution but it really does make a difference and prevents the requirement to aggressively run up to obstacles.
Now for the LSD, when in a reverse situation for example, and the rear is unweighted, the LSD keeps the rears at or near the same speed (limited slip) and the TC doesn't really come into play and I'll save having power loss through one wheel. If the front still has grip (which in a rear elevated position the front generally has great grip) I can apply more power to reverse out. If the rear as a whole is slipping too much though then the TC kicks in.
This I have more capability reverse than forward if not using momentum and sheer force to get out.
Now, in certain circumstances it is better with the TC off which I can easily do (ie mud) where momentum is key and a bit of slip won't hurt from the front, but having the LSD in the rear means there's no one wheel loss, and enables me to throttle steer (fun) if and as required.
The individual lines a requisite for the stability control which self activates in 2WD (can be overridden) and controls yaw of vehicle.
In summary, there are advantages of an LSD and TC used together. But it's all circumstantial. I am in no way stating that it replaces lockers but it's a good system factory spec.
Checkout my ride in My Colorado build Thread!!!
muc the truck
Well-Known Member
because when you have a lsd, you have no differential action until such time the lsd is slipping . before this occurs you can have both sides spinning and brakes dragging to try and get traction . what happens to one side with a brake is transferred to the other side . that's why the best tc systems do not have lsd. the wheels on a axle with out lsd can brake to prevent wheel spin independently of each other without slowing down the wheel on the other side of the axle that's now providing traction.
Eightyeight
Member
So with you example on side to side with one diff, having an LSD means mostly the TC wouldn't have to activate at all as the LSD keeps the two sides from spinning at different speeds. Thus less brake induced control of wheel spin, less wear, less heat, more power transfer.
How is this a problem?
Having an LSD does not negate a TC system, nor does a TC system negate an LSD.
I'd much rather have a diff transferring power for even rotation than have power bleeding through one wheel and a single brake trying to counter it.
My point is they both have merits and uses. They don't cancel each other out nor do they conflict. If you have an LSD factory fitted, and it's not too shabby, that's one less diff that you have to spend hard earned on...
Checkout my ride in My Colorado build Thread!!!
muc the truck
Well-Known Member
I think you ability to reverse is due to the weight distribution .
I think miss under stood me .will try and fix it up. All along I was speaking about 4x4. never 2wd. nothing but 4wd. having traction control with one brake line going to the rear axle and lsd with traction control is a disadvantage over a open diff and independent brake lines to each wheel. Having a lsd and traction control in a 4wd even with individual brake lines is almost a non advantage considering there is no independent control over each wheel and the system with drag on both wheels even when one wheel is providing more traction than the other in the term of grip .
a non lsd system with independent brake lines permits differential action so you can have two different road speeds on each axle to make up for traction difference between wheels while it continual tests and adjusts to suit the conditions . one wheel speeds up when one the other is slowed by brake force. you don't get that with lsd unless the lsd is over powered by brake force.
your better off with a system with no lsd(open diffs) and individual brake circuits for every wheel .
with maybe the option of momentary diff lockers like elocker air lockers if you wanted a slight improvement for when wheels get full air.
Eightyeight
Member
I can see we both have a point but may be dragging each other further OT. But good all the same to have a discussion.
Will respond to your above when I get home, read it a few times and knock out a reply ha ha
Checkout my ride in My Colorado build Thread!!!
Will respond to your above when I get home, read it a few times and knock out a reply ha ha
Checkout my ride in My Colorado build Thread!!!
PedroPajero
New Member
I have a 2011 single cab ute carrying a Travelander slide-on camper. This model didn't come with TC but most certainly had a LSD.
From new I had ARB lockers front and rear installed, I think the overall cost then was about $3000. I had this done because firstly you are limited with traction with IFS, and secondly, I knew the tracks I wanted to do (OTT, Frenchmans Track, CSR, Simpson etc). With the lockers you can invariably walk up or down most terrains (especially using their anti-stall feature) and not have to 'attack' certain sections of track which inevitably lead to potentially drivetrain damage. When carrying 3.4tonne it was important for me to make the ride as smooth as possible. And yes, I did have a GVM upgrade to 3.4tonne done in WA.
Not having TC, from what I have heard, it is better to turn it off and activate lockers.
Having said all that, it is a very expensive option, but then you can just about go anywhere(clearance permitting)
When using both lockers exiting the Pascoe River on the Frenchmans track, which was the first time I had used them properly, the compressor stayed on all the time. Although the lockers stayed engaged something wasn't right. The use of them thereafter sometimes saw the same problem and sometimes not. I subsequently found oil leakage from what I think to be the front diff breather tube under the bonnet, and had oil leakage from the rear diff housing entry point( which turned out to be a nick in the air hose)
So all in all I have not been happy with these lockers and will look elsewhere when I change vehicles in a few years.
One thing to note is if you have ARB lockers front and back you can not just engage the front. The rear must be engaged before the circuit for the front becomes 'armed'
I have a 96 Pajero I use for Club 'Lock and Lifted' days, and I must say this has mot missed a beat, and other than clearance issues, I go where all the Cruisers and Patrols go.
Hope this helps
From new I had ARB lockers front and rear installed, I think the overall cost then was about $3000. I had this done because firstly you are limited with traction with IFS, and secondly, I knew the tracks I wanted to do (OTT, Frenchmans Track, CSR, Simpson etc). With the lockers you can invariably walk up or down most terrains (especially using their anti-stall feature) and not have to 'attack' certain sections of track which inevitably lead to potentially drivetrain damage. When carrying 3.4tonne it was important for me to make the ride as smooth as possible. And yes, I did have a GVM upgrade to 3.4tonne done in WA.
Not having TC, from what I have heard, it is better to turn it off and activate lockers.
Having said all that, it is a very expensive option, but then you can just about go anywhere(clearance permitting)
When using both lockers exiting the Pascoe River on the Frenchmans track, which was the first time I had used them properly, the compressor stayed on all the time. Although the lockers stayed engaged something wasn't right. The use of them thereafter sometimes saw the same problem and sometimes not. I subsequently found oil leakage from what I think to be the front diff breather tube under the bonnet, and had oil leakage from the rear diff housing entry point( which turned out to be a nick in the air hose)
So all in all I have not been happy with these lockers and will look elsewhere when I change vehicles in a few years.
One thing to note is if you have ARB lockers front and back you can not just engage the front. The rear must be engaged before the circuit for the front becomes 'armed'
I have a 96 Pajero I use for Club 'Lock and Lifted' days, and I must say this has mot missed a beat, and other than clearance issues, I go where all the Cruisers and Patrols go.
Hope this helps
PedroPajero
New Member
So, what's the cost of front and rear E-Lockers for the DMax