Dmax CV

[Jackolux]

Hi mate
Did they break on full lock or close too..????

I have broken 2 CV , both times I did have some lock
My Ute has a 30mm lift , I attached a GoPro underneath the Bull Bar a couple of weeks ago , I think I will now fit a Diff Drop

This is a Mates Dmax with std Suspension , its not on the same track but you will get the idea

And just for interest here is a new Ford Ranger on the same track as my Dmax

 

[Swaggie]

I have broken 2 CV , both times I did have some lock
My Ute has a 30mm lift , I attached a GoPro underneath the Bull Bar a couple of weeks ago , I think I will now fit a Diff Drop

This is a Mates Dmax with std Suspension , its not on the same track but you will get the idea

And just for interest here is a new Ford Ranger on the same track as my Dmax

What a great idea with the go pro, very informative reply, great stuff..

 

[Les PK Ranger]

I have broken 2 CV , both times I did have some lock
My Ute has a 30mm lift , I attached a GoPro underneath the Bull Bar a couple of weeks ago , I think I will now fit a Diff Drop
x

This is a Mates Dmax with std Suspension , its not on the same track but you will get the idea
x

And just for interest here is a new Ford Ranger on the same track as my Dmax
x

Jacko, thanks for posting those vids, very cool to actually see this.
Straight up your angles are just too great, as you know.
Great idea, do the diff drop.

But even your mates are bad due to the fact (you can see it) the CV angles are accentuated in risk as they angle forward from the diff to the wheel, as well as up with any lift !!

On lock the risk is great to break something with forward angle AND especially with any added lift.

Are you locked in the front / rear ?
Would this help or hinder the issue (ie push you up / over obstacles under less duress to the CVs).

It'd be interesting to what your camera on a Colorado and see if like the Ranger, you have said the Colo with its different running gear and the CVs go straight out to the wheels on those.

 

[Jackolux]

Yep Swaggie is a lot of people making claims about suspension lifts , diff drops not needed with only 30mm lift is what I think every suspension mob is saying ,
I didn't think it would be necessary either , but I thought I would have a look , dunno what you or others think but that video of my CV's is not pretty , I can see why some are breaking top CV's now , that wasn't what anyone would call a rough or challenging track , some here will know the track , its the bottom section of Army track from Donnelly Ck .
My Dmax had a GVM upgrade before rego , going by the before measurement it's now only 5mm higher than std .
But if you measure a Dmax with std suspension after it has done a few K's and they have settled ( sagged ) a bit , it is 30mm higher than std .
The lift is not the only reason they break CV's so easily , I know of std ones that have .

 

[Jackolux]

Les , yes I wasn't going to mention the diff being behind the centre of the front wheels , I have already taken enough shyt over it by some just claiming it's BS , well it's not and it is a real issue with this model Isuzu .
Lifted suspension just makes it worse , there is nothing we can do about the position of the Diff , it's just a PITA ,
I have made some steering stops that reduce my lock , not saying it's a fix but I hope it might help,
I do have front and rear lockers , I believe if use correctly especially being very careful with the front , it will reduce stress on the CV's ,
I will be fitting a Diff Drop asap , in the next week or so I hope

 

[Jackolux]

If anyone is interested there are some more videos on my YouTube , where I use just TC and then same track with both lockers , plus some other crap,

 

[Les PK Ranger]

Les , yes I wasn't going to mention the diff being behind the centre of the front wheels , I have already taken enough shyt over it by some just claiming it's BS , well it's not and it is a real issue with this model Isuzu .
Lifted suspension just makes it worse , there is nothing we can do about the position of the Diff , it's just a PITA ,

Mate, yeah that has been a bit of a shyt fyt on various threads here but . . . I think it's good to recognise and accept things that are bad as well as good with any make / model vehicle, and work with it / change for the better, if possible.
Denial will just see you stuck by the side of a track one day.

If it isn't obvious to people how an offset CV angle forward (or back) could accentuate angle issues, especially with a lift, or at full or near lock, then it's hard to discuss anything with them I guess . . . to me it's just plain mechanical common sense.

Keep in mind, different people won't have the issues depending on where they like to go, what sort of tracks they want ot drive.
Me, I have broken 2 torsion bar mounts on the Ranger, I am certain my north Simpson trips have slightly damage / fatigued these over many km of outback tracks / corros, and eventually went when under future duress and the alst on a very easy track !
I have 2 new ones, will be reinforcing with welded plates before June north Simpson trip, we are driving very ough, much of it untracked terrain, one side to the other.
They won't ever break again.

You could have a hundred PJ/K Rangers drive for decades around the country touring on normal roads / tracks, and not have a single one break / fatigue.

We Ranger owners also have the 4WD module that is seemingly getting more attention on threads with many coming out about their problems, other forums too.
At least we know if this or that happens, we can have a good idea of how to overcome it.

The lockers would help for sure, CVs are also prone to breakage if you get some wheel spin and then it finds ground, or if you hit the brake rolling back down a gnarly track when one is spinning etc.

 

[Swaggie]

Yep Swaggie is a lot of people making claims about suspension lifts , diff drops not needed with only 30mm lift is what I think every suspension mob is saying ,
I didn't think it would be necessary either , but I thought I would have a look , dunno what you or others think but that video of my CV's is not pretty , I can see why some are breaking top CV's now , that wasn't what anyone would call a rough or challenging track , some here will know the track , its the bottom section of Army track from Donnelly Ck .
My Dmax had a GVM upgrade before rego , going by the before measurement it's now only 5mm higher than std .
But if you measure a Dmax with std suspension after it has done a few K's and they have settled ( sagged ) a bit , it is 30mm higher than std .
The lift is not the only reason they break CV's so easily , I know of std ones that have .

My front has been lifted 45mm , seems to be ok so far, apart from a recently split boot , that will be fixed very soon, big job though.Already did the passenger side...
Have been looking at diff drop kits myself..

Cheers mate..

 

[Les PK Ranger]

Swaggie, for sure CV angles affect boot wear too.
Did you find HD ones for the Hilux ?
You can get them for most vehicles I believe, much longer lasting when boots are 'kissing' more at angles.

 

[Swaggie]

Swaggie, for sure CV angles affect boot wear too.
Did you find HD ones for the Hilux ?
You can get them for most vehicles I believe, much longer lasting when boots are 'kissing' more at angles.

Hi Les
There the originals mate so they've done bloody well..The first was a leak no split etc , read a lot about the Hilux boots not liking your vehicle being lifted....HD ????

 

[macka17]

Spinning front wheels then dropping down on the rocks again
don't help either.

These little toys do quite well when you consider what they are.
in relation to proper 4wd's. They only utes.

That's what a lot tend to forget.

If you going serious stuff. Along with the proper 4wd's.
sensibly you should be retrofitting serious metal
CV'S etc, to give the thing a chance.

Just remember, the more you beef up
the more of the other bits you'll blow.
Utes are road and site transport with some,
4 wheels driven
to give more chance of getting there.

Nothing more. Nothing less.
Just a fancy, not so cheap, wannabe.

I've got one. and wrapped in it.
It's a boat and caravan tug.
Perfect in it's weight group.
But going offroad, I'll start up the GQ every time.

 

[Les PK Ranger]

HD ????

Heavy duty, think it's just thicker material.

 

[Jackolux]

My Diff Drop should be here this Friday with any luck it will be fitted next week , I will then go and drive that same track again to get a after video .
I have a couple of mates with one has a new Hilux with Lovells Suspension and a Triton with Lovells Suspension , I want to get some video of their suspension as well .
My 06 Hilux had a suspension lift , I only ever replaced one CV , it was just clicking when turning , I never actually broke a CV or had to replace a boot , in 200k and a lot of 4wheelin , with the 2 Air Lockers I went everywhere the Cruisers and Patrols did , ground clearance was the only real issue .
My Dmax has a small hole in both bottom boots , you can see the grease in the video , I have patched them with silastic for now , will get em replaced at the next service .

 

[muc the truck]

I have broken 2 CV , both times I did have some lock
My Ute has a 30mm lift , I attached a GoPro underneath the Bull Bar a couple of weeks ago , I think I will now fit a Diff Drop

This is a Mates Dmax with std Suspension , its not on the same track but you will get the idea

And just for interest here is a new Ford Ranger on the same track as my Dmax

The cv angles on this dmax compaired to stock video are Hideously BAD. I am not calling you a liar but the angles have changed the hub spigot too axle so much more than 30 mm and appears to be more like is out by the diameter of the cv .

Its little wonder why your busting cv they are almost all the time hitting full range downward and the cv join is ranging to its extreme all the time instead of occasionally like the standard does. . maybe lighter flexi springs are in order so the other side compress better and reduces the amount of time one hits the lower range . If you go too firm with a irs spring rate it doesn't contour the ground so well and instead lifts a wheel rather than absorbing the contour . basically lighter the springs the more evenly dispersed weight and traction provided the heavier the spring rate the less even the load on each wheel and traction provided by each tyre over contours and that mean sudden wheel spin and sudden traction because the suspension is no longer flexible enough to contour the terrain without wheel lift , it only takes a wheel to spin a 1/4 turn. grip and bust a cv I hope you understand what I mean . Lets hope your diff drop fixes the angle because it looks so wrong now .

 

[Jackolux]

Muc , I hear what you are saying , I have a ARB GVM upgrade , its not something I have thrown together myself
so I guess every other Dmax that has done the same GVM upgrade will be the same ,
I know it's bloody awful and the only way I found out was to stick the GoPro under there , anyone else that has lifted their Dmax must be in the same boat .
A new std Dmax is 540mm centre of hub to guard , going by that I'm only 5mm higher
The few Dmax with std suspension that have done 50+ K that I have measured are now 510mm one measured 500mm
going by that I do actually have a 30mm lift ,
If you ask any of the " experts " they will all say 30mm is ok no problems , well it appears after viewing my video they are bloody wrong .
What about those that say they have a 50mm lift , without a Diff Drop , what must they be like .
I wasn't spinning any wheels when I broke either CV.

 

[Tink]

A new std Dmax is 540mm centre of hub to guard , going by that I'm only 5mm higher

No Jacko, the front of a new Dmax is generally accepted as being 520mm so you have a 25mm suspension lift.
It is the rear that is 540mm when on the showroom floor.
Tink

 

[muc the truck]

Muc , I hear what you are saying , I have a ARB GVM upgrade , its not something I have thrown together myself
so I guess every other Dmax that has done the same GVM upgrade will be the same ,
I know it's bloody awful and the only way I found out was to stick the GoPro under there , anyone else that has lifted their Dmax must be in the same boat .
A new std Dmax is 540mm centre of hub to guard , going by that I'm only 5mm higher
The few Dmax with std suspension that have done 50+ K that I have measured are now 510mm one measured 500mm
going by that I do actually have a 30mm lift ,
If you ask any of the " experts " they will all say 30mm is ok no problems , well it appears after viewing my video they are bloody wrong .
What about those that say they have a 50mm lift , without a Diff Drop , what must they be like .
I wasn't spinning any wheels when I broke either CV.

You half get what I said . Now that I know you have a gmv upgrade this tends to go exactly were I was saying buying lighter grade springs would help contour the terrain so one side compresses more so the other side doesn't have to droop its max range so often and be kinder on cv angles . I bet if you were to sync start two cameras , one on either side you would find often that while one side now is far to stiff to compress under the vehicles load over a contour the other side has to droop its max range to compensate. This is a bad situation that you have a rather crunching one . I don't think you need the gmv upgrade (at least in the front anyway) because if you did it would behave more like the stock one because the vehicle load could overcome the strength of the coils and press down the front end on terrafirma instead of how it is now . When you said you were not spinning a wheel when you broke a cv , I doubt from your drivers seat you could tell a 1/4 of a wheel turn from the drivers seat because that's all it takes and due to the action of a diff the wheel spinning speeds up the spinning side about 4 times faster than the speed of all other wheels and the speed your moving so to travel 1/4 turn takes a split second that will blend in with the sound of the cv snapping .
I want you to take a critical look at were the top suspension arm is in relation to the stopper beside it on both videos . Your mates standard one hardly ever goes near the stoper while yours rarely ever leaves it alone . I would like to know the two static measurements between yours and his here . Unless its perspective from camera angles it looks way more than 30 mm. it also could be a contributing factor if you empty your fully laden vehicle that requires the gmv upgraded of its cargo to go off road . Then you go up more than the 30 mm lift. way more

 

[Jackolux]

Well there ya go only a 25mm lift and it's still way to much .
I'm not going to argue about +/- 5mm , but I just double checked the ARB measurement sheet they gave me when the GVM was done .
ARB take their measurements from the bottom of the rim
RF std = 755mm
LF std = 750mm

Wheel = 440mm ,
755 - 220 = 535mm
750- 220 = 530mm
I just measured the right side , now 760mm from rim ,
Hub now 530mm
Couldn't be stuffed trying to squeeze between the wall and the Ute to do the left side , doesn't matter any way
Fact is the lift is to much ,
I'm still going to put the GoPro under a lifted Hilux and Triton when I get a chance , it will be interesting to see what they look like .

 

[Jackolux]

Muc , I'm not arguing with you and you could very well be right , changing the springs it is something I will look into now thanks for your input .
I have a single hoop Bar and Winch , so how would softer spring go ?
All I'm really reporting is others have the very same upgrade I have , so they will be in the same boat , if I hadn't filmed it no one would be any wiser .
I'm 100% positive I had no wheel spin when either CV broke , the second one we were driving down a track , I actually have a dash cam video of when it broke .

 

[muc the truck]

Muc , I'm not arguing with you and you could very well be right , changing the springs it is something I will look into now thanks for your input .
I have a single hoop Bar and Winch , so how would softer spring go ?
All I'm really reporting is others have the very same upgrade I have , so they will be in the same boat , if I hadn't filmed it no one would be any wiser .
I'm 100% positive I had no wheel spin when either CV broke , the second one we were driving down a track , I actually have a dash cam video of when it broke .

you don't need a gmv upgrade for a winch bar . I would give dobinson standard weight 30mm raised a go . they are all ready heavier as soon as they provide any lift .