peterfermtech
Well-Known Member
And????
Climate Change - Biggest Money Making Con of the Century or Imminent Extinction of the Human Race
- Thread starter Spooner
- Start date
John U
Well-Known Member
If the bush continues to stay dry and these bushfires occur more regularly than the time required for the bush to recover the landscape will change significantly.
Bomber2012
Well-Known Member
Maybe the strategy on fight bush fires needs to go back to actually putting the fire out rather than back burning to create containment lines . This was the opinion of a retired CFA I recently spoke to .
John U
Well-Known Member
I think they're too hard core or remote to control in some circumstances now, which results in the firies letting the fires burn themselves out. Think this happened with some of the black Saturday bushfires.
peterfermtech
Well-Known Member
For a start the bush would need to recover to have similar bushfires. But maybe the bush may revert to a state similar to that prior to white settlement where fuel loads were not what they are now. Photos and paintings of the late 19th century indicate a vastly different landscape.
There aren't many tracks into where the fires are burning. It would be seriously dangerous to be stuck in a firestorm with one track the only way in and out. The Woolondilly fire is in an area with mainly walking tracks only. Sydney is actually surrounded by dense wilderness to the north west and south west. We've just been put on alert, the fire is crossing the Gross Valley. The only thing I can say is its been incredibly lucky there hasn't been a lot of wind. If the wind starts to blow the villages through the Blue Mountains will get torched and the firies said tonight at a meeting in Faulco that there's not much they can do about it, it's too big.
peterfermtech
Well-Known Member
What is normal? What the weather is like now, 20 years ago, 100 years ago, during the federation drought or 200 years ago?
peterfermtech
Well-Known Member
Well today will be different from yesterday and tomorrow. Right now, here, it is 19oC and Yesterday it was 28oC at this time. So yes it is different and that is why using isolated examples to try to prove climate change is so much BS. This current drought in NSW QLD is not the first one and it won't be the last.
"
Since the 1860s there have been nine major Australian droughts. The major drought periods of 1895-1903 and 1958-68 and the major drought of 1982-83 were the most severe in terms of rainfall deficiency and their effects on primary production. In south-eastern Australia the droughts of 1967-68 and 1982-83 were notably extreme. There have been six other droughts of a lesser degree of intensity, but nevertheless causing appreciable losses in large areas of several States. In south-eastern Australia there have been eight severe droughts, mostly encompassed within the major Australian droughts.
Droughts will continue to be a prominent feature of the Australian scene. Improved meteorological drought watch services and hopefully an improved ability to forecast droughts through local research and participation in the WCP will help to mitigate their adverse impacts. The nature of drought, however, and the way in which the community should deal with it are complex issues incorporating significant variables in fields such as hydrology, agriculture, economics and sociology, as well as in the political realities of the day."
https://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/lookup/1301.0Feature Article151988
"
Since the 1860s there have been nine major Australian droughts. The major drought periods of 1895-1903 and 1958-68 and the major drought of 1982-83 were the most severe in terms of rainfall deficiency and their effects on primary production. In south-eastern Australia the droughts of 1967-68 and 1982-83 were notably extreme. There have been six other droughts of a lesser degree of intensity, but nevertheless causing appreciable losses in large areas of several States. In south-eastern Australia there have been eight severe droughts, mostly encompassed within the major Australian droughts.
Droughts will continue to be a prominent feature of the Australian scene. Improved meteorological drought watch services and hopefully an improved ability to forecast droughts through local research and participation in the WCP will help to mitigate their adverse impacts. The nature of drought, however, and the way in which the community should deal with it are complex issues incorporating significant variables in fields such as hydrology, agriculture, economics and sociology, as well as in the political realities of the day."
https://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/lookup/1301.0Feature Article151988
There are so many factors at play it's impossible to pin down any one factor. The climate always changes and always has. The Sahara Desert used to be a lush landscape, why is it a desert now....it's a bloody big desert too. Obviously the climate changed in a big way. The premise is that if we reduce CO2 emissions we will limit or stop climate change and things will stabilize, but will it? I repeat, the climate always changes and always has. Does it mean it will change in a different way? Common sense to me means we have to accept that climate changes and we have to be smart enough to adapt with it or we go like the dinosaurs who didn't adapt. Don't get me wrong, reducing emissions is an admirable goal for many reasons other than climate change and I'm all for it, but, I don't believe it will stop the climate from changing, the change will only be different. What, do we want the earth to be turned into a virtual air conditioned room with predictable temperature and weather? Not going to happen.
dno67
Well-Known Member
People also need to remember large areas of prime agricultural land have been lost to housing and commercial structures over the last 100 + years, now we're trying to farm more in marginal areas. This is really a double wammy, for the inviroment. Storm water straight down a pipe in high rainfall areas causing flooding in some cases, while also pushing agriculture into marginal areas adding to longer transport distances and higher production costs.
IMO it's now being replicated on a global scale with the global economy and mass OS imports.
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D
Deleted member 69390
Guest
No one disputes that but climate scientists correctly highlight that it is the rate of change that is totally out proportion to changes caused by nature itself - in the past changes in climate take place over thousands to millions of years, current changes are taking place over decades not thousands of years.
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peterfermtech
Well-Known Member
A land of Snowy mountains,
Of smoke and bush fire haze.
Albynsw
Well-Known Member
The problem I have with that is that scientists have nearly always got it wrong to date so despite best intentions I don’t really think they have a handle in it and yet people take every word they breath as gospel
Albynsw
Well-Known Member
Mike I think you have summed it up right there
And yet there are people going off at Scott Morrison being on holidays at the moment when he should be home stopping the global warming so that the fires go out
shanegtr
Well-Known Member
That there is a prime example of the flawed nature of people using local weather as example of climate change being BS. There is a big difference between weather and climate.
Science (any discipline) has always been based on the current best theory. Hell even Einsteins theory of general relativity has been put to the test more times than you could count. Climate science is no different - the current models would be different to previous due to new data input, new measurement technology etc... The current science says we are in a warming climate, that may or may not change in the future but at the moment this is what we need to rely on to make correct discussions for the future.
peterfermtech
Well-Known Member
Well whilst you obviously don't get my subtlety you are exactly right and that is why using these fires/drought as proof of climate change is BS.
Albynsw
Well-Known Member
Yes I get that and I believe their intentions are good but history has shown that they have stuffed up royally on numerous occasions so I treat everything they say with a level of scepticism
You only have to look at what they said 15 years ago would be happening now to see they don’t really know what is going on. That is not to say we shouldn’t be cleaning up our act and reducing our emissions etc