Charging electric vehicles

Corndoggy

Well-Known Member
Has anyone sat down and had a really good look at how charging electric vehicles is going to work.
Let's say a fully charged car will get 600klms. Could take 8 hours to fully charge the batteries and away you go. Seems to me that with the number of people travelling the country, charging stations will have to be everywhere and in big numbers. You need a charge and the cars are all hooked up for hours, you going to wait their time then your time. People don't like waiting 5 mins for petrol. Then where do you stay waiting your 8 hours. In the car, in your caravan, in a motel? Or do you do a quick 5 min charge and off to the next one. Gone are the days of getting to where you want to be in 24 has. Then when all the cars are electric where is the power coming from to charge millions of cars. And every year thousands more. Solar, when the sun shines, batteries when they're charged and electricity if available. To bad if you need a charge and it's night and batteries are flat and your in the middle of nowhere. Do you carry a generator. This just popped into my mind and I haven't looked into it but someone here would have.
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
just a thought but why isn’t the exterior of a EV a solar panel? Could be getting a bit of a top up whilst you are parked and getting a bit of extra juice while you are driving
 

Hoyks

Well-Known Member
An electric car punching out 600-1000 km a day would be a relatively rare event. Most cars in Australia are luck to do 60km a day, so having them running on an over night charge is no issue at all and they leave more diesel and petrol for those that do want to rack up the km.
I used to work interstate and it was a 786km trip from my door to where I was staying, not an impossible range for an EV with 600km range and pump some electrons into it at my lunch stop.
JC has done some real world calculations on this and they seem to make sense.


just a thought but why isn’t the exterior of a EV a solar panel? Could be getting a bit of a top up whilst you are parked and getting a bit of extra juice while you are driving
Because the area of panels you could fit would be insignificant when it comes to increasing range. 250-300W of roof would be lucky to get you out of the carpark.
 

Skurfer

Active Member
Got a couple of mates with electric cars. It's a complete change in habits compared to owning a petrol car.
None of them take 8 hours to charge, except maybe if you plug it into a 10 amp wall plug at home it is completely flat. The fast chargers are like an hour at most if the car is all the way flat. But generally if you are going 400km or more you will just plan where you are going to stop for a rest/piss/food and fast charge it up again whilst doing that and off you go again.
But day to day, it's like having a petrol Bowser at home. You do your kms for the day, plug it in the garage when you get home, when you leave again in the morning it's fully charged with 500kms to go again. Or do what one of my mates does and just doesn't change it day to day at home, and will plug it in for free at the supermarket whilst doing a shop or when out and about somewhere and fully charged for free when he gets back. Reckons he hasn't paid for any electricity for it in like 2 years as there are a fair few free fast chargers around.

It's not like everyone will have an electric car all at once instantly. Infrastructure will change/increase as there are more and more, and people will find a way to make money out of it. The fact people need to come and stay for a 20-30 minute period is what many cafes and such have installed them for free use. Few bucks worth of electricity cost and the customer spends $30 for lunch and a drink.
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
But generally if you are going 400km or more you will just plan where you are going to stop for a rest/piss/food and fast charge it up again whilst doing that and off you go again.

The fact people need to come and stay for a 20-30 minute period is what many cafes and such have installed them for free use. Few bucks worth of electricity cost and the customer spends $30 for lunch and a drink.
Sort of. Based on our recent experience, most rural and remote locations are struggling to keep up with having enough fuel bowsers to meet demand, when filling a vehicle takes (perhaps) 5 minutes at a time.
There was more than one location where queuing for 20 minutes was required to get fuel.

So, based on a 5 minute fill time, one bowser can fuel about 12 vehicles an hour - give or take. If an electric vehicle is going to take (say) 30 minutes to refuel, then your 12 vehicles an hour all of a sudden requires 6 "bowsers". Multiply that by the usual 6 or so fuel bowsers at a typical location and you're looking at 36 electric charge points to meet the same demand - that's a lot of real estate to provide enough room, a lot of infrastructure and a lot of power supply needed.
For your typical remote roadhouse that relies on diesel generators for power, this is hardly going to be an environmentally "better" option.

And this is the problem - liquid fuels are easy to transport and dispense and they require relatively little time for refuelling operations. Electric vehicles do not offer that convenience (yet).
Personally I think the way forward is though standardised and exchangeable battery packs - where you pay a yearly amount to lease your pack and an amount to exchange it (that is, refuel) at a service station. Then your "refuel" time is going to be in the order of 5 to 10 minutes and the charging infrastructure can be much more compact - although it still requires the same amount of electricity.
Until then I think electric vehicles are going to be limited to near-major-centre use.
 

Hoyks

Well-Known Member
Fuel cells. Ship liquid ammonia that gets converted to hydrogen on-site and fill the vehicle with that.
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
I spoke to a guy with a Teslar at a car show last year, he had just done a Melbourne to Sydney and return trip without issue, he said you just need to plan your stops every 400km or so and its about 30 minutes each stop.
I am sure years ago the people supplying coal and water for the trains or the hay and shoes for horses made some to hard it wont work comments.
Its called change and advancement
 

cam04

Well-Known Member
There was a Tesla from Melbourne at the big red bash 2 years ago. I’ve see charge points at the strangest places - Yarangobilly caves…. The age of the elec car is here already. If I could fill my car for free I’d find 30 minutes.
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
My mate has a Tesla S with the Ludicrous option. It's bloody fast. When he drives it to work in the Melbourne CBD he gets a charging spot. Happy days - free energy ( but he pays $35 per day for the car park).

He loves it ,but generally takes his other car on road trips now. He said it is just too hard to avoid the charging issues. He does a lot of weekends in places like Warnambool, Metung, Bright etc. But mostly winery / foodie areas LOL.

He said it needs a lot of planning, and even more luck to be able to use it on these trips. He said one thing people forget is that if you do a 3 - 4 hour drive, you get to your location with a nearly empty battery! Given these places have no or limited fast charging, it means he often can't go anywhere till the next day. Some hotels and Air BnB's have medium chargers but they still need 4 - 6 hours to get a decent charge Half the time the charging stations are in use anyway and he was stuck. And he gave up trying to exclusively book accommodation with chargers. It's a crap shoot.

He is a believer but he said you have to work your time around it. Great for around town, but more intrusive than Teslla would have you believe for longer trips.
 
Last edited:

Ranger_Scott

Active Member
Just out of curiosity, can't remember where I heard it, and it may have been 3rd/4th hand so could be a bit embelished.... I got told that electric vehicle batteries are like any other batteries and are only good for x number of charges. So after a while (probably years) they need replacing. The figure I got told to totally replace the batteries in a Tesla was around $30K. Now I'm assuming that the owner would have fork this out as I doubt it would come under warranty, and would have to be taken into account buying 2nd down the track I guess?
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
My mate has a Tesla S with the Ludicrous option. It's bloody fast. When he drives it to work in the Melbourne CBD he gets a charging spot. Happy days - free energy ( but he pays $35 per day for the car park).

He loves it ,but generally takes his other car on road trips now. He said it is just too hard to avoid the charging issues. He does a lot of weekends in places like Warnambool, Metung, Bright etc. But mostly winery / foodie areas LOL.

He said it needs a lot of planning, and even more luck to be able to use it on these trips. He said one thing people forget is that if you do a 3 - 4 hour drive, you get to your location with a nearly empty battery! Given these places have no or limited fast charging, it means he often can't go anywhere till the next day. Some hotels and Air BnB's have medium chargers but they still need 4 - 6 hours to get a decent charge Half the time the charging stations are in use anyway and he was stuck. And he gave up trying to exclusively book accommodation with chargers. It's a crap shoot.

He is a believer but he said you have to work your time around it. Great for around town, but more intrusive than Teslla would have you believe for longer trips.

We have a number of charging stations in our area, I worked on a new local resort accommodation and two charging bays were installed. One of the local wineries has 4 charging bays as well.
Our distance from Sydney would put us in the recharge required zone range for visiting Sydney tourists.

As an aside, a local had his place burn down as a result of a fault developing in his Tesla charger.

What has surprised me is how noisy EV’s are. A Tesla passing you at 80 plus kph is just as noisy as any equivalent ICE vehicle. Just goes to show how much wind and tyre noise you generate
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity, can't remember where I heard it, and it may have been 3rd/4th hand so could be a bit embelished.... I got told that electric vehicle batteries are like any other batteries and are only good for x number of charges. So after a while (probably years) they need replacing. The figure I got told to totally replace the batteries in a Tesla was around $30K. Now I'm assuming that the owner would have fork this out as I doubt it would come under warranty, and would have to be taken into account buying 2nd down the track I guess?

That is true. I think it is 8 years but that is for something like 70% capacity. My friend had that issue. I forget the details but after about 5 years it was near the limit. He had some argy-bargy with Telsla and they came to a cost split type agreement. ( it also helped that he knows Robyn Denholm from when they worked together at Telstra). They replaced the battery pack for about $8000. I think they are normally about 20K. He was a bit pi$$ed, but figured he got another 8 years life. He still loves it.
 
Last edited:

boobook

Well-Known Member
What has surprised me is how noisy EV’s are. A Tesla passing you at 80 plus kph is just as noisy as any equivalent ICE vehicle.

They are eerily quiet inside, especially when you put your foot down. Its like someone just flicks a switch and you are instantly at 100KMPH. No Sound, no fuss, no hesitation. Just like someone belts you back into your seat.
 
Last edited:

cam04

Well-Known Member
They are eerily quiet inside, especially when you put your foot down. Its like someone just flicks a switch and you are instantly at 100KMPH. No Sound, no fuss, no hesitation. Just like someone belts you back into your seat.
Being able to press the remote and have your car come find you has upsides when it is raining etc also… $20k for the battery pack would buy a fair bit of fuel. We looked at electric this time round for the wife’s car but couldn’t make it add up to more than a whim, maybe next time.
 

mikehzz

Well-Known Member
I think a hybrid that can do around 60kms on electric and run a fuel motor at other times is the best option. You can run around town on electric and use the fuel for longer trips.
 

Rusty Panels

Well-Known Member
There is this alternative but it sort of questions the original purpose!

1630016486538.png


Purpose built petrol generator trailer.
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
A Swap and go fuel cell system solves the problem of waiting around to recharge or of having power available in more remote areas
You can see where it will head though with a power play like VHF or Beta , Samsung or Apple
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
I am sure years ago the people supplying coal and water for the trains or the hay and shoes for horses made some to hard it wont work comments.
Sorry Matt, but trains and horses are not the correct analogy to be using.
In the days of coal fired steam locomotives, massive amounts of time and money were invested in building, maintaining and supplying depots where coal and water were provided for the trains. But, at most, these places might have two locos at a time replenishing and it would take 20 to 30 minutes. Most stations had water points, and coal points were needed every couple of hundred kilometres. You can still see the remains of these depots all over the country, and they were much more common than fuel stations in remote areas today. Despite the problems, train lines sprung up all over the country, providing the country's backbone transport network for over a hundred years.

Back in the day, every little town and settlement and the bigger farms had a blacksmith for maintaining the horses and wagons, stables for housing them and they grew their fodder. Again, these centres were much more common than fuel stations today.

But, in both cases, there wasn't a viable alternative - you used horses and wagons to get to and from the railway and then the trains from there, for everything going in and out from where you lived.

Electric vehicles, on the other hand, have a well proven and viable alternative - liquid fuelled vehicles.
 
Top