Catch cans aint Catch cans

#1
G'day guys,

Roughly a year ago I did my research on catch cans, and ended up with a HPD (High Performance Diesel) billet aluminium unit on the new Dmax. I wasn't entirely sure how it would compare to others on the market, but there were so many raving reviews that I went with it. That, and it came in a proper kit for the Dmax, was Australian made and looked great quality.

As it turns out, their efficiency isn't great. I got an email a few months after the install from Curtin University, who compared 12 catch cans in a lab for their ability to separate fuel, moisture, soot and oil from the blowby gas. Suffice to say the HPD scores quite low, and I wasn't a happy man.

I did my own testing regardless, and its been on the vehicle now for 27,000km, and caught very little oil when compared to identical Dmax's running Provents.

So, there's a lesson in it for me, and probably for others too. Just because it looks good, and people love it, doesn't mean they are actually the best option for your vehicle. They do work, and they do catch oil, and some people get very upset when you suggest they aren't good, but I have now seen time and time again where the Provents catch a lot more.

I've written a long post about it, with a link to the study done at Curtin University for those of you who are interested: Why I'm removing my HPD Catch Can.

I'll be removing the HPD shortly and replacing it with something else (likely a Provent 200 if I can find somewhere it will fit).

Take it easy
Aaron
 
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mac_man_luke

Well-Known Member
#2
Yea not heard great things about the HPD units

Quite interested in the Process west unit, seems to be a nice unit but would be good if it was tested to compare to the provent.

Provent really seems to be the standard but they are just so bulky and hard to fit in modern engine bays especially once you have a second battery, fuel filter etc
 

Petunia

Active Member
#3
Interesting.

I have a hose from the tappet cover to the brass fitting in the exit side of the turbo pipe. Hence I get a smidgen of black oil weeps out round nice blue turbo hoses as oil does. I don't look down the butterfly thingamajig very often, but yes there is a smear down there, naturally. Don't look don't know, right?

Recently I have taken to ''Research'' this catch can phenomenon, AHEM !! I aint paying that much !! NO !!

so I flew to town for bargain cable, and happened to be in a store with Catch Cans on display [ I do want to cure the oil goin down its guts] I tell you the difference in them is astounding, 3 or 4 different brand 2 different size models ranging from a sealed black tube with 2 spigots and a drain hole, some with a fancy clear level tube but just a hollow square alloy tube with nice allen head bolts in the end covers.

Only one had the description ''Baffled'' the oil vapour goes in, is directed down through a screen then come back up through stainless pot scourer wool and exits. I liked that one as after hours research reading, getting the vapour to slow down a bit change directions, swirl and something to try to condense the oil back out of its hot mist. Others may have stuff inside that was not apparent, but I physically looked inside all of them to see what was evident or not. Some are no more than a fancy coffee can with two spigots for hoses.

Verdict : 1 : not all catch cans are the same!

2 : I am still NOT paying that much for a empty box with a filter that I need replace at that EXORBITANT price because you made it so that if I buy your can I therefore need service it with said filter at that retail price. [I swear I have Scottish heritage somewhere?]

3 : Ozito sell a catch can for $24.19 only they don't know it yet? + $8.20 in fittings, if it does not work 32.39 repurposed back to what it was intended to do in the first place. Then I go back to all the brass and copper in the laundry and fabricate a not so plug and play can, my time is only worth $52.60 a hour and if it take 10/15 hours to make it will be cheaper than the 400$ bought one? No?

Picture if it works? Act like I was never here if it doesn't :cool:[ but first that bargain cable needs cutting up ]
 

Hoyks

Well-Known Member
#4
Unsealed did a review on a few of them a couple of months ago. http://unsealed4x4.com.au/u4x4/issue057/#113

I had a mate that also used a high volume compressed air oil/water separator and it did the job. He was concerned the bowl would get damaged by the heat, so bought 2 and still had change from what a catch can would cost.
Its been on there for a few years, but as far as I know he is still on the 1st bowl.
 
#6
Yea not heard great things about the HPD units

Quite interested in the Process west unit, seems to be a nice unit but would be good if it was tested to compare to the provent.

Provent really seems to be the standard but they are just so bulky and hard to fit in modern engine bays especially once you have a second battery, fuel filter etc
The 200's are certainly bulky. Curtin Uni is doing testing on the process west ones.

Interesting.

I have a hose from the tappet cover to the brass fitting in the exit side of the turbo pipe. Hence I get a smidgen of black oil weeps out round nice blue turbo hoses as oil does. I don't look down the butterfly thingamajig very often, but yes there is a smear down there, naturally. Don't look don't know, right?

Recently I have taken to ''Research'' this catch can phenomenon, AHEM !! I aint paying that much !! NO !!

so I flew to town for bargain cable, and happened to be in a store with Catch Cans on display [ I do want to cure the oil goin down its guts] I tell you the difference in them is astounding, 3 or 4 different brand 2 different size models ranging from a sealed black tube with 2 spigots and a drain hole, some with a fancy clear level tube but just a hollow square alloy tube with nice allen head bolts in the end covers.

Only one had the description ''Baffled'' the oil vapour goes in, is directed down through a screen then come back up through stainless pot scourer wool and exits. I liked that one as after hours research reading, getting the vapour to slow down a bit change directions, swirl and something to try to condense the oil back out of its hot mist. Others may have stuff inside that was not apparent, but I physically looked inside all of them to see what was evident or not. Some are no more than a fancy coffee can with two spigots for hoses.

Verdict : 1 : not all catch cans are the same!

2 : I am still NOT paying that much for a empty box with a filter that I need replace at that EXORBITANT price because you made it so that if I buy your can I therefore need service it with said filter at that retail price. [I swear I have Scottish heritage somewhere?]

3 : Ozito sell a catch can for $24.19 only they don't know it yet? + $8.20 in fittings, if it does not work 32.39 repurposed back to what it was intended to do in the first place. Then I go back to all the brass and copper in the laundry and fabricate a not so plug and play can, my time is only worth $52.60 a hour and if it take 10/15 hours to make it will be cheaper than the 400$ bought one? No?

Picture if it works? Act like I was never here if it doesn't :cool:[ but first that bargain cable needs cutting up ]
The only thing that worries me with DIY is that if you build up too much pressure something needs to give, like a rear main seal! I like the idea of a correctly engineered product off the shelf.

Unsealed did a review on a few of them a couple of months ago. http://unsealed4x4.com.au/u4x4/issue057/#113

I had a mate that also used a high volume compressed air oil/water separator and it did the job. He was concerned the bowl would get damaged by the heat, so bought 2 and still had change from what a catch can would cost.
Its been on there for a few years, but as far as I know he is still on the 1st bowl.
The unsealed 4x4 article was done based off the same information from Curtin Uni. I had thought about using an air service unit. I wonder what the heat does to the filters?

A recent Unsealed4x4 article compared them from the expensive billet ones to the cheap plastic eBay specials.
As above. Curtin Uni compared 12 different ones. Certainly some interesting results

Aaron
 

Petunia

Active Member
#7
The only thing that worries me with DIY is that if you build up too much pressure something needs to give, like a rear main seal! I like the idea of a correctly engineered product off the shelf.

I hear you, to a degree. I read stuff late at night for a week, I saw all the pressure build up blown seals arguments. all the block the EGR which I dont have EGR, 2002 model, so was EGR not a thing then on a diesel? the naughty um ah you cant do that but you can remap the ECU turbo suck turbo pressure taking it from in to out side from out to in side.... ad nauseum [as is always with forums? no?]

I have no argument with you or any one buying off the shelf. This gas/oil/vapour/gunge/unburnt fuel/blowby was naturally vented to the atmosphere old holdens for example had a ''walking stick'' and if you followed one and he was UP it you could see every inch of his blow by coming out underneath. next that becomes not environmentally friendly, so along comes PCV valve to stop manifold vacuum creating, ah, well vacuum in your sump but suck the good oil fumes out. now god knows what Ecrap and Ethings .... dont get me wrong I am on for the environmental issues or I would simply pull the hose off and drop it all on the ground, I can do that simply because I have a hose going from the tappet cover to the blown side of the turbot pipe, no other Ecrap was on that model.

Now that was done back when the bears were bad, by the turbot fitters, and yes they did a good job and I was and still am happy with the job.

Reading all the woes, no's and nauseum, by all accounts I should be over pressurising my sump with the hose on the blown side of the turbot? Not one oil leak in that engine in 16 years.

[oh you rabbit on boy][get on with it] A smart guy would say if I use the near same size fitting, and size hose that come off the tappet cover, into a container that is not stuffed so tight with some substance, then back into a manifold fitting that has been there for years how am I going to over pressurise the sump and blow seals. If however, I am a sharp tool from the shed, and use hose that is too small or stuff so much cotton wool in the container not even the fear of god can get through it, then I do deserve blown seals.

all good, I am just not paying for what is essentially a glorified coffee can with 2 spouts on it, believe me I was thinking of soldering two half inch copper pipes in a coffee can, one 3part the way down the can, one near top, chuck in stainless brillo pads, zip ties and sikaflex ... Bobs your Aunty .... but all this hoo ha over things that might go wrong had me questioning myself, which brings me to the model that has relief vents on both sides to stop pressurising your sump? What was on any car before catch cans? there was never any relief valves? were there? in both sides> suction and sump side?

all good .... back to the abyss, there a tool shed full of blunt ideas :cool: and those cables too
 

phs

Well-Known Member
#9
I have a HPD can,

I am actually fairly happy it still let’s some oil vapour through, EGR and no oil Vapour at all probably worse off than no can at all

Also found it catches a fair about of water
Over 40k the ratio is about 1 part oil to 5 parts water
 
#10
I hear you, to a degree. I read stuff late at night for a week, I saw all the pressure build up blown seals arguments. all the block the EGR which I dont have EGR, 2002 model, so was EGR not a thing then on a diesel? the naughty um ah you cant do that but you can remap the ECU turbo suck turbo pressure taking it from in to out side from out to in side.... ad nauseum [as is always with forums? no?]

I have no argument with you or any one buying off the shelf. This gas/oil/vapour/gunge/unburnt fuel/blowby was naturally vented to the atmosphere old holdens for example had a ''walking stick'' and if you followed one and he was UP it you could see every inch of his blow by coming out underneath. next that becomes not environmentally friendly, so along comes PCV valve to stop manifold vacuum creating, ah, well vacuum in your sump but suck the good oil fumes out. now god knows what Ecrap and Ethings .... dont get me wrong I am on for the environmental issues or I would simply pull the hose off and drop it all on the ground, I can do that simply because I have a hose going from the tappet cover to the blown side of the turbot pipe, no other Ecrap was on that model.

Now that was done back when the bears were bad, by the turbot fitters, and yes they did a good job and I was and still am happy with the job.

Reading all the woes, no's and nauseum, by all accounts I should be over pressurising my sump with the hose on the blown side of the turbot? Not one oil leak in that engine in 16 years.

[oh you rabbit on boy][get on with it] A smart guy would say if I use the near same size fitting, and size hose that come off the tappet cover, into a container that is not stuffed so tight with some substance, then back into a manifold fitting that has been there for years how am I going to over pressurise the sump and blow seals. If however, I am a sharp tool from the shed, and use hose that is too small or stuff so much cotton wool in the container not even the fear of god can get through it, then I do deserve blown seals.

all good, I am just not paying for what is essentially a glorified coffee can with 2 spouts on it, believe me I was thinking of soldering two half inch copper pipes in a coffee can, one 3part the way down the can, one near top, chuck in stainless brillo pads, zip ties and sikaflex ... Bobs your Aunty .... but all this hoo ha over things that might go wrong had me questioning myself, which brings me to the model that has relief vents on both sides to stop pressurising your sump? What was on any car before catch cans? there was never any relief valves? were there? in both sides> suction and sump side?

all good .... back to the abyss, there a tool shed full of blunt ideas :cool: and those cables too
Sounds like you are very familiar with it all, and are in a position to tinker; so onwards and upwards mate :D

I don't even use a catch can , so never had to worry about looking at stuff in a jar ;)
I think I get your drift. I suppose you have no rust issues in the chassis either? ;)

I have a HPD can,

I am actually fairly happy it still let’s some oil vapour through, EGR and no oil Vapour at all probably worse off than no can at all

Also found it catches a fair about of water
Over 40k the ratio is about 1 part oil to 5 parts water
Good to hear. It is amazing how much water these things collect. You wouldn't want to send it back to the sump!

Aaron
 

Jackolux

Active Member
#12
I had a HPD CC fitted to my Dmax , I no longer have the Dmax or a vehicle with a CC
But last time I emptied it before I sold the Isuzu , I had collected 165mil of oil in 27k , I removed the outlet hose just out of curiosity and found it to be completely dry .
But a mate has one on his 2.8 Hilux and in 20k its collected bugger all , just touching the very bottom of the stick , so we pulled his outlet hose and yeah it's wet with oil .
 
#13
I have the HPD cc in the cruiser for the last 17k, including a 13k run to the cape n back . So far it's collected about 25mil of oil.
May not be the most efficient unit on the market but it seems to be doing it's job so can stay there for now, plus it looks pretty:p.
 

Cokedaddy216

Well-Known Member
#14
:confused: Well we have a HPD catch can on a 2016 hilux , 2014 hilux , 2016 D max & we don't give a a hoot how much it catches :p
The 2017 hilux isn't suitable for a catch can & we don't give a hoot about that either :eek:
Like ol mate said they look the part , do the job & yeah I forgot what I was on about o_O
 

Tink

Well-Known Member
#16
I can't see why the make of car / motor can make any difference buggered if I know why some HPD Cans seem to work and other don't
Number one reason I reckon is because the home handyman, sorry, home handyperson, installed it arse about, hooked the hoses up the wrong way.
Number two etc etc, would be directly related to the quality, type, viscosity of oil used, age of engine, how hard the engine is being worked, service history, driving style, etc etc.
Tink
 

Jackolux

Active Member
#17
Yeah Tink , I know thin oil / poor quality oil and /or , a half buggered motor will produce more fumes , that should mean the can just catches more oil .
The mates HiLux is the latest model 2.8 , only done about 40k , serviced by Toyota with 5w30 oil ,
( and he has had no DPF problems YET amazing I know ) yeah I reckon it should probably be 15w40 ,
 

Cokedaddy216

Well-Known Member
#19
Yeah Tink , I know thin oil / poor quality oil and /or , a half buggered motor will produce more fumes , that should mean the can just catches more oil .
The mates HiLux is the latest model 2.8 , only done about 40k , serviced by Toyota with 5w30 oil ,
( and he has had no DPF problems YET amazing I know ) yeah I reckon it should probably be 15w40 ,
0/30 is the oil toyota says for the current hilux 2.4 or 2.8 Penrite makes it :cool::D
 
#20
Tink according to HPD the hoses can go on any way and it won't matter... always seemed suss to me. Been using a Provent for years and very happy.

 
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