Camper trailers - Which one to buy?

[hardo76]

Gday, Just wanted to get some feedback on purchasing a camper trailer. We are looking at buying a new camper trailer that will suit 2 Adults and a teenager, We want to start exploring Oz. We have somewhat narrowed it down to the hard floor forward folding style campers, we need a north/south facing bed because of my height.
Some of the trailers we have checked out so far are the Stoney Creek FF6, Ausrv LX Double fold and the Ezytrail Lincoln LX. At the moment we are favoring the Stoney Creek one.
Would appreciate any feedback on these or another brand we should check out.

Cheers

 

[discomatt]

No experience with those campers but for me, Australian made would be a must not just assembled here with overseas garbage either wholly Aussie built, ball weight is a major consideration with forward folds.
Before we moved to an off road van we had a Johnnos Evolution, had to do some basic improvements from factory to fix some poor build quality but the design was awesome,set up and pack up was reasonably quick and easy. We took it all over the country , did about 70,000km with it and it never let us down even in some very remote and tough locations. In some ways I regret selling it
Do a search through a search forums and I am sure you will find hours of reading at your disposal

 

[CTL]

Welcome to Earth.
I would guess that all of those brands you mentioned come out of the same Chinese factory. Choose the brand based on after sales service history as you will need it with all of them. Not saying they are rubbish but all campers like them are built to a price.
As said above, forward folds are towball heavy so be aware of your vehicle’s weight limitations.
Research, research and more research. Try asking on the camper trailers forum and the myswag forum also

 

[boobook]

IMHO buying a camper trailer is a very personal thing. I guess that's why there are so many options.

Like all complex purchases you need to go through a phase of noting what you think you want, do a phase of discovery like forums, ads, websites and reviews. Then you need to compare your initial short list back to back. Say at a caravan show. Look at every camper, even ones not on your short list. This is more about what you really want vs what you thought you wanted. Eg do you really want forward fold and the issues that can cause with rear 4wd doors and access to front storage? Would rear fold be better?

Then start again on you wish list with wants and do not wants. At this point your views may have changed. Get a new short list and get real specific feed back on each one based on your needs. For example a less expensive imported camper might be OK for what many people want but a disaster for others.

Consider second hand.

If you ask for advice on forums, you will get most people telling you what's best for them unless you are very very specific about your budget, intended use and preferences.

Lurk at caravan shows at least 2 to 3 times imho

 

[ipch]

Had a look at them all at a recent camping show. My son in law is ready to pull the trigger on a Silverback.. Impressive with air con, heater and air inflated annex. The unit can be also pressurised for travelling on dirt roads to keep dust out. Another feature is a second water tank across the back to adjust towball weight. Build quality is good and the boat rack is built to last.

 

[2luxes]

What will you be towing it with? The Stoney Creek trailer that you mentioned is very heavy and the towing coupling is a long way from the wheels. That usually means a very high ball weight as has already been mentioned.

No matter what you buy, always read the towing instructions in the car's hand book. If it says you must use a WDH (weight distribution hitch) for any ball weight above a certain weight ( usually about half the maximum) then you must. Ignoring it can lead to a lot of expensive damage like bent chassis on cab/chassis utes and bent or broken rear axle housings, broken axles or sheered wheel studs on other types of cars. There is plenty of photos of this type of damage on the net.

The big problem though with a WDH on a camper trailer being used on bush tracks is the large angles that can form between the car and trailer when driving through things like deep ditches or climbing up out of creeks. The WDH can be bent beyond its limits resulting in damage to it, the tow bar or the car.

There is a lot more that could be said about towing. Can you tell us a bit more about what you intend doing?

 

[callmejoe]

Some key points we'd look at.
Can u load the camper while it's in a closed position, or how simple is to access. Makes a world of difference when all you wants to do is put in your clothing and some small boxed stuff in. I found most forward fold have no rear access and a strut while closed blocked the door.
Bedding, can u close the camper with all ur bedding in place. It'll get "repetitive" making and unmaking the bed.
Kitchens are NOT all the same. Just because it's got 4 burners doesn't mean they'll be useful.. food preparation space, you cannot have enough. look out for things like If ur already cooking can u still get to the fridge or spice draw. Some great looking photos of set ups but in reality not very functional.
Awning, quicker the Awning usually the weaker it'll be, less poles less strength. Also if it small is it really going to provide any protection from the elements. Plus when the kitchen is open can u still sit under the awning. Some kitchens take up all that space too.

watch the ball weight specially on forward fold. There's a reason u see big twin wheel carriers on cheaper campers. There used as counter weights.

I prefer rear fold over forward any day, for us we feel it provides better usable space, pre pack and clean up heaps easier with access while closed.
Our floor can be opened and shut by hand, not winched. Shower access and set up much better. bigger windows for air flow.
lower ball weight. Bigger awning and outside area.

Also note drawbar lenght. is it going to suit your vehicle.
Sunshade on the roof are gold.

 

[cam04]

^^^^ read every paragraph above again. I wouldn’t change a word of any of it for my reply^^^^^
For us a forward fold was a compromise too far. I’ve had an MDC cape York since new in 2016. Rear folds require a bunk bed setup for younger kids but everything else is better. Just my opinion. Those of us who actually own imported campers and have had them for 6 years and 40,000 plus kms all over the country just quietly go about our business, smiling. I had 2 Australian made campers prior and the MDC is better than both. I can only comment on my own brand as most can about theirs.

 

[megamung]

we have had our stoney creek forward fold since January 17 , in that time its travelled over 50 thousand KLms many of those bush tracks and corrugated dirt roads and with big touring trips away and many weekends we have lived in it for over 6 months of that time.
ball weight is around 250 and fully loaded for a week away the whole thing is under 1900.

cons

• yes it is heavy for what it is , but most of that is because everything is steel, this thing is built like a tank, we have towed it with our manual D40 Navara (3T max) and now the Fortuner (2.8T max) and both do it effortlessly no engine mods, no GVM upgrades, no WDH
• yes you do not have access to the main body of the camper when it is closed, but it takes less than 2 minutes to open or what we do is on the first leg from home we carry our clothing and bedding in the car and pack it in on the first night.
• some of the standard fittings are a bit cheap and nasty. the first thing we replaced was the mattress , the ome one was like a slab of concrete, then the jockey wheel and finally just before our last trip in June I fitted some EFS shocks. and that is pretty much it, everything else still works like new.
• only thing broken was i hit a dust hole on the savannah at about 60 and cracked the leading edge of the smaller aluminium water tank fixed it in 5 minutes at the next servo with some putty.
• that's it really

Pros

• it tows beautifully, it is well balanced and tracks the vehicle perfectly, I have had it up to 130-140 for very short overtaking and never experienced any sway
• heaps of ground clearance and handles mild 4wd tracks easily
• heaps of storage most of the time we travel with just people in the car everything else fits in the trailer and there is more room to strap stuff to the top that we never use
• its quick to set up, without the awning I can be ready to go by myself in under 5 minutes with the awning two of us in 15.
• with a forward fold you have this awesome and comfortable lounge/dinette , lift the table move some cushions and you can escape bad weather play board games, eat, entertain or in good weather roll up the sides and have a few cold ones
• we paid 22k and it came with and 80lt evercool and a hot water system , we use both every trip and they are both working fine.
• the long drawbar makes it very easy to back into tricky spots makes you look like a pro at the camp ground. plus it has storage for 40 lt of diesel and 2 x 9kg gas bottles
• on our last trip we travelled with 3 other families, and after 4 days of dusty and rough roads we were the only ones without dust in our bedding
• I could go on but i think you get the idea, our experience has been very positive, but I look after my gear and I know some who have had a bad time. you will find that no matter what brand or style of camper you look into. I believe that people buy the wrong product for their needs/expectations and then blame the product instead of owning their bad choices.

choose what suits your needs and budget and except nothing is perfect.

 

[Rusty Panels]

We spent a couple of months researching caravans and were hoping to find something that was all Australian made. The sad fact is that there doesn't appear to be many that can genuinely claim to be fair dinkum 100% Aussie.

Just about everything you purchase is going to have some element that is Chinese made. We ended up buying an MDC 16 foot van that ticked all the boxes for us. They are well constructed and get pretty good reviews. There's even been several to Cape York and back with no issues. The main problem people seem to have comes from the local assembly of the plumbing where they have had the odd leak from new. I like the fact that they are an all welded aluminium frame and the chassis which is made in Australia comes with a lifetime warranty. Time will tell as to the overall build I guess. Off to Tassie in March restrictions permitting for the maiden trip.

 

[hardo76]

What will you be towing it with? The Stoney Creek trailer that you mentioned is very heavy and the towing coupling is a long way from the wheels. That usually means a very high ball weight as has already been mentioned.

No matter what you buy, always read the towing instructions in the car's hand book. If it says you must use a WDH (weight distribution hitch) for any ball weight above a certain weight ( usually about half the maximum) then you must. Ignoring it can lead to a lot of expensive damage like bent chassis on cab/chassis utes and bent or broken rear axle housings, broken axles or sheered wheel studs on other types of cars. There is plenty of photos of this type of damage on the net.

The big problem though with a WDH on a camper trailer being used on bush tracks is the large angles that can form between the car and trailer when driving through things like deep ditches or climbing up out of creeks. The WDH can be bent beyond its limits resulting in damage to it, the tow bar or the car.

There is a lot more that could be said about towing. Can you tell us a bit more about what you intend doing?

Thanks for your reply, I currently have a 2016 Mitsubishi Triton. The info states that it has 3100kg towable mass and 310kg ball weight. For example the Stoney Creek trailer has a ATM weight 2260kg and 175kg Ball Weight. Would that be within its limitations?
We are looking at doing various trips up and down the coast and into the outback, which could include on the beach, dirt roads and bush tracks. Nothing too crazy, we just wand to explore a bit.

 

[hardo76]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I will take it all on board. I really appreciate it, we have the Newcastle Caravan and camping show this weekend so I'm pretty excited to check them all out.
It gets pretty overwhelming when you're trying to find something that meets the families needs and keeps everyone happy and wanting to explore, whilst spending a fair bit of coin. Cheers

 

[cam04]

Stated ball weights will be with the trailer ‘dry’. Most things you load into them goes in front of the trailer axle so it all increases ball weight. Work on around 250 kg and up and you’ll be somewhere in the realm of probability for touring weight.

 

[megamung]

Stated ball weights will be with the trailer ‘dry’. Most things you load into them goes in front of the trailer axle so it all increases ball weight. Work on around 250 kg and up and you’ll be somewhere in the realm of probability for touring weight.

I weighed mine fully loaded for our trip last year and it was just under 250.
one more con I thought of , is they are very easy to overload. because there is so much storage there is the temptation to throw every bit of crap you think you may need into it.
we went over what we were dragging around with us and chucked anything that we hadn't used in the last couple of trips away. I reckon we got rid of at least 100kg of cookware/dinnerware alone, for some reason I had 3 fry pans

 

[cam04]

I weighed mine fully loaded for our trip last year and it was just under 250.
one more con I thought of , is they are very easy to overload. because there is so much storage there is the temptation to throw every bit of crap you think you may need into it.
we went over what we were dragging around with us and chucked anything that we hadn't used in the last couple of trips away. I reckon we got rid of at least 100kg of cookware/dinnerware alone, for some reason I had 3 fry pans

I’ve never weighed mine. I’ll be under on the gross, the trailer has 500kg of payload. It tows like a dream. I’ll hit 250k.g. Ball weight fully loaded for sure i reckon. Definitely need the right car with the right suspension to tow them.

 

[dusta77]

another type to look at it something like mine. a stoney creek nugget . i have the hiview1800 darche rtt . Just over a tonne fully loaded
. super quick to setup . But at the end of the day the decision is yours .

 

[Corndoggy]

High on my list would be Blue Water Campers and Stoney Creek Campers.
I have a Blue Water Camper that had what I considered, the best build quality of this style camper at the time I purchased it. They have had very good after sales service from them for any problem that occurred. There is a Facebook group you can get info from owners and some camper are for sale if your after a second hand one. You can customise what you want included when you purchase new .
Didn't see a Stone Creek camper until after I purchased mine but the quality looked like it was up there with the best. Would have been a coin toss as to which one I purchased. But cannot say good or bad with after sales service. I'm happy with Blue Water though.

 

[2luxes]

For example the Stoney Creek trailer has a ATM weight 2260kg and 175kg Ball Weight. Would that be within its limitations

It should be easy but you have to think beyond the weight number.

Weight is just a measure of the pull of gravity. You can't buy a piece of weight but anything you buy has mass (the amount of material in it) and when that material Is put into motion, it builds up momentum and does not want to stop. That is why a car for example does not stop instantly when you put your foot on the brakes.

The same thing happens to whatever you put in your car or on the tow ball. On uneven roads, that material is constantly either falling and building up momentum or being heaved up suddenly. The forces going into load bearing parts like the chassis, axle housing, wheels, wheel studs etc are well above the forces they are subjected to while the car is sitting in your driveway or cruising along a freeway.
To make matters worse, those forces increase by the square of the speed.

Getting back to your 175 kg tow ball weight: I looked at Land Rover's web site a few years ago. The specifications section for their 4wd Defender ute said 150 kg on the tow ball puts 206 kg on the rear axle. That comes from leverage which is the distance between the ball and the axle.

I asked them a few questions about towing via email. Their reply said their 3500 kg off road towing capacity comes down to 1500 kg in off road conditions.

My next door neighbour had a 4wd Triton that towed a caravan. Out of curiosity, I asked Mitsubishi, once again by email, a few questions about Triton towing. One answer said they do not recommend towng the maximum ball weight in off road conditions but they did not give any reduced figures.

Weight distribution in the car is very important. I asked a Toyota salesman about the load the seats were designed to carry. He said while attending a Toyota training sesson, he was told the average weight of an Australian male. That is currently around 87 kg. Add work clothes and boots and you would have about 90 kg or 450 kg for five.

If you had a dual cab with that weight in the five seats plus a full fuel tank, then add enough bags of cement across the front of the tub out the back to bring it up to its maximum capacity, the car should look level from side on.

If you then put four of the men in the back of the tub, the car would still be showing maximum weight on a weighbridge but the rear end would most likely be sagging.

Nobody is going to load a car like that but plenty do it with their much lighter weight family and all the things they load up the rear end with.

That is when the air bags or stiffer rear springs go in. The car now looks fine from side on but the rear end of the chassis is under considerably more stress.

There is also a good chance it is now going to oversteer ( slide the rear end sideways ) in a fast corner or sudden swerve instead of understeer ( the front running out wider ) like just about every car in the world has been designed to do since the 1930s for safety reasons.

If I was in your position, I would start by asking Mitsubishi a few questions on their customer information service.

Make sure you weigh the camper trailer and its ball weight before you buy it. It may not be what the specifications say.

Decide and weigh all the things that you intend putting in the trailer before you buy it then add it to the trailer's weight. You may find that it is a lot heavier than you were expecting. Keep in mind that whatever you put in it will alter the ball weight depending on where you put it.

Have a look at the RV Books web site. It contains a lot of free reading on both caravan's and trailers. There is also a good book on camper trailers. I bought an early addition years ago. and it was well worth reading.

Have a look at the photos and information on understeer/overtsteer on the net. You will be amazed at how easy it is to change a car from one to the other when loading it, altering its suspension, playing around with tyre pressures etc.

Running around the bush is a good place to get tyre punctures and some of them can be very big holes. If you run over a sharp piece of something like dead tree roots and puncture a front and rear tyre at the same time, you will.not be the first one to do it. Have a look at the tyre information and repair section of the Beadell Tours website. It will keep you up all night trying to get through it.

 

[discomatt]

Getting back to your 175 kg tow ball weight: I looked at Land Rover's web site a few years ago. The specifications section for their 4wd Defender ute said 150 kg on the tow ball puts 206 kg on the rear axle. That comes from leverage which is the distance between the ball and the axle.

I asked them a few questions about towing via email. Their reply said their 3500 kg off road towing capacity comes down to 1500 kg in off road conditions.

They also have a reduced weight for roof racks as well, no other manufacturer I have come across has off road limitations which all 4wds should have, especially roof racks. But then again what defines off road? Driving down a dirt road or low range scrambling up steep loose track with big step ups in the high country.

If you had a dual cab with that weight in the five seats plus a full fuel tank, then add enough bags of cement across the front of the tub out the back to bring it up to its maximum capacity, the car should look level from side on.

If you then put four of the men in the back of the tub, the car would still be showing maximum weight on a weighbridge but the rear end would most likely be sagging.

And in this scenario even though the maximum total weight would be reached the rear axle weight would be overloaded. It pays to weight the set up as a whole and each axle to ensure it is set up correctly and not overloading the rear which have surprisingly low maximums that get reached very quickly, sitting level is only part of the puzzle

 

[2luxes]

But then again what defines off road? Driving down a dirt road or low range scrambling up steep loose track with big step ups in the high country.

According to a definition on the net, the use of the term " off road " was first used in 1954 and referres to a vehicle designed to operate off public roads.

Roads like a dirt road or a steep mountain track may be hard on some cars but they are still public roads.

Many 4wds are designed to operate off public roads in standard form. One good example is the Land Cruiser ute.

My wife and I were on one of our trips over the Birdsville Track when a standard looking Cruiser ute approached from the opposite direction. It slowed down when it got close to us then turned 90 degrees off the road and headed cross country towards the horizon without even as much as a couple of wheel tracks to follow.

And in this scenario even though the maximum total weight would be reached the rear axle weight would be overloaded. It pays to weight the set up as a whole and each axle to ensure it is set up correctly and not overloading the rear which have surprisingly low maximums that get reached very quickly, sitting level is only part of the puzzle

I just followed the hand book on our single cab Hilux when we bought it.

In the tyre section it said the pressure for the standard size 205 R 16 reinforced size tyre is 25 psi front and rear when the car is carrying two people and up to 100 kg of luggage. The rear is 25 front and up to 34 rear when fully loaded.

The front is constant at all times so I did not mess things up with the weight of things like a bull bar and winch.

By following those instructions, I can be bv sure the car will still understeer.

I then removed the aluminium tray and built our 220 kg plywood and steel camping body that was low enough to get the car into our garage and then built a half floor size lift up roof so we could stand up in it.

It contains a double bed across the rear end, a 40 litre fridge and battery, a toilet, a shower that can be set up inside in a few minutes. Clothing, tools, gerry cans, etc are stored across the front wall and under the front edge of the bed. There is bugger all weight across the rear end under the bed.

I take the tow bar off on trips. The book says it can be towed off the hook at the front or the spring shackles at the rear.

The total weight of the car when we have taken it everywhere from VHC tracks to roads like the Connie Sue is 200 kg under maximum.

We even camped in the thing for seven months when we recently sold our house, bought a block of land and had a new house built.

That would not suit a couple with children. We had two a long time ago so I built a 8 ft by 6 ft by 4 ft high box on wheels. It had a rear door and a fold down floor out the back. On top across the back half was a car roof top bed that folded out and attached to the floor.

We had years of fun in that on both sealed and dirt roads The tow car was a 504 Peugeot.

The OP in this discussion could do the same with what he intends buying. All he has to do is not rush in. Take the time to study as much as possible, don't overstress the car or pound the thing into the ground by trying to keep to tight time schedules in rough conditions and try not to change the design of the car.