Being charged for exporting from your solar panels.

[synchro]

I dont understand the need to go with these expensive Tesla lithium power wall things for a household setup. The Tesla batteries along with other lithium settings are greatr where you need high power but light weight - as in cars, as in aux batteries in 4wds etc - but in homes there is the space to use other batteries and weight is not an issue - a bank of AGMs will work just as well at a substantial saving, might no last quite as long but are still overall lot cheaper but they do not look as good as a Tesla Power Wall.

 

[Kippie]

This whole mess is created by the lack of federal policies for renewable energy. The question is simple. Do we want to stay with our current arrangement of fossil fuels providing electricity or do we want to have renewables do it. For both scenarios policy settings are required to achieve the intended outcome. What we see now is rampant market forces pushing us in a haphazard direction dictated solely by profit. Not energy security or affordability. The federal government is adding more confusion by declaring that they would use tax payers money to build a gas power station. It's total mayhem.
The companies that provide our power are here today, but they may be gone tomorrow when there's little profit to be made. So guess who ends up paying for this mess?
I am not waiting for this issue to be settled. We will be expanding our current PV and battery system to go off grid. At least then I will have power security and no more power bills. EVER.

 

[Les PK Ranger]

It is a heap of dollars to there bottom line that is replenishing the heap of dollars they are not getting because you are using solar BUT their overheads are still the same because they are expected to be there to supply you when the sun don’t shine

Don’t forget all you solar people were subsidised by tax payer dollars to lure you into installing your system it in the first place
If you had to pay full freight I doubt you would see many systems out there

I haven't bothered with solar Alby, and I still do pay something towards those that do have panels as well :/
How many angles do the power cos get ?

Edit, tried to find that but think it was just taxpayer subsidies, or it was through supply charges / increased costs.
Power cos won't allow profits to suffer, they will plug govco to get either more supply charge or some other angle like this clawback.

 

[Albynsw]

I haven't bothered with solar Alby, and I still do pay something towards those that do have panels as well :/
How many angles do the power cos get ?

Edit, tried to find that but think it was just taxpayer subsidies, or it was through supply charges / increased costs.
Power cos won't allow profits to suffer, they will plug govco to get either more supply charge or some other angle like this clawback.

i haven’t bothered with it either, I have no issues with it but we don’t use enough power to be concerned about installing it

 

[Albynsw]

This whole mess is created by the lack of federal policies for renewable energy. The question is simple. Do we want to stay with our current arrangement of fossil fuels providing electricity or do we want to have renewables do it. For both scenarios policy settings are required to achieve the intended outcome. What we see now is rampant market forces pushing us in a haphazard direction dictated solely by profit. Not energy security or affordability. The federal government is adding more confusion by declaring that they would use tax payers money to build a gas power station. It's total mayhem.
The companies that provide our power are here today, but they may be gone tomorrow when there's little profit to be made. So guess who ends up paying for this mess?
I am not waiting for this issue to be settled. We will be expanding our current PV and battery system to go off grid. At least then I will have power security and no more power bills. EVER.

mate the truth is we can’t do without fossil fuels at the moment until the technology improves for the alternatives
I know it is not what people want to hear but that is the ugly reality currently

hopefully for not much longer though

 

[Kippie]

That's true, but in the next decades more coal fired power stations will shut because they are not profitable anymore. There will be no more investment in coal. The writing is already on the wall. Meanwhile our investments in alternatives are all over the place. If there are no adequate policy settings now to enable a smooth transition, then we, the consumers are going to suffer.

 

[peterfermtech]

Meanwhile our investments in alternatives are all over the place. If there are no adequate policy settings now to enable a smooth transition, then we, the consumers are going to suffer.

I just don't get this argument. If you want to stifle creativity and new development then tell the market what they must do. That experiment was tried in the Eastern block countries where it failed miserably (although I can still buy valves for my amp because of it). There is policy settings for the use of gas (read hydrogen) which seems to be opposed by certain groups whether this is due to lack of understanding or just political pig headiness I'm not sure but the way I see it we still have a long way to go before the government should/can pick a winner.

 

[Toyasaurus]

Synchro, the amount of batteries you need for the same kwh as lithium is about 4 times as much.
currently on aussie batteries & solar, 26.4kwh 48v battery bank is $4200.00 on special, usually 6k, to match lithium you would need 3 to 4 of these, otherwise they won`t last. each bank has 8 units @ 57kgs each. Then you need a very good BMS, not to mention the room to store them safely.
Maintainance, by the time you get this setup it would cost the same if not more than lithium.

Kippie, Are you talking about gas as in hydrogen or NG?
We don`t have enough NG in nsw and hydrogen take a heap of power to make in the first place.

The muppets in power don`t want anything to do with renewables because once it gets to a certain point there`s no money to be made for them.
ATM they are just trying to make the right noise for the next election, most of the lib`s think renewables is the sporn of Satan. labours no better.

Anyway you look at it we still need base loading on demand, if your going green unless someone comes up with fusion power, the only way forward to me is geothermal, we just need the muppets to put up the money for it. they piss so much away on crap at least that would be useful.

I love valves too.

 

[Albynsw]

Anyway you look at it we still need base loading on demand, if your going green unless someone comes up with fusion power, the only way forward to me is geothermal, we just need the muppets to put up the money for it. they piss so much away on crap at least that would be useful.

Didn’t Flannery already tout this and got a govt grant to find it wasn’t viable?

 

[Les PK Ranger]

That's true, but in the next decades more coal fired power stations will shut because they are not profitable anymore. There will be no more investment in coal.

Who are the mugs on the planet ?

I recall reading lots of news articles, oh, maybe a year or two ago, Japan, US, China, among a few others building new HELE coal fired power stations.
Decided to Google it last night and check if I can find the facts.

The US and China (you'd expect it from the PRC / CCP) are having a go at Australia lately about not doing enough to reduce emissions, not having targets low enough, etc.

I found this . . .

https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants

The map speaks for itself.

In the Policy drop down in the menu box, you can read some pretty damning info about the # of coal fired plants in China, and how they need to 'rapidly' closes 186 of them to reduce emissions to meet their stated goals.
How the US has the world’s second largest fleet of coal-fired power plants (behind China), and over the course of history it has cumulatively produced more CO2 than any other nation. Its citizens have carbon footprints that are roughly three times the global average.

Have a look at the map, the new coal plants built in (particularly) China, Indo, India, a few in Japan, a scattering in Asia and Europe.

Granted to the US, they are closing lots down, not building or planning new plants, but still have a huge number of plants operating and not tagged to close.

Our coal is dug up by the hundreds of millions of tonnes (over 400 mil tonnes) a year and much is shipped to many of these places to be burned in their plants, to produce cheap energy for their population . . . until WE STOP shipping coal like that, it's not only hypocritical, but totally pointless to participate in the supposed problem of carbon emissions / climate change.

As shown, we are nothing, nothing in the scope of the World situation, not even a drop in the bucket.
15th highest emitter per capita in the World, we are punishing ourselves and being bullied by larger 'problem maker' nations.

 

[boobook]

Every chance technology would of improved enough to make them start looking obsolete by then?

How does the warranty read on the units? I am guessing it is pro rata warranty and product only not labour to change/ install?

I'm not sure of the warranty details. I gave up when the payback was way out. I guess it will get cheaper and better over time. 12V lithiums as always getting cheaper.

 

[boobook]

Synchro, the amount of batteries you need for the same kwh as lithium is about 4 times as much.
currently on aussie batteries & solar, 26.4kwh 48v battery bank is $4200.00 on special, usually 6k, to match lithium you would need 3 to 4 of these, otherwise they won`t last. each bank has 8 units @ 57kgs each. Then you need a very good BMS, not to mention the room to store them safely.
Maintainance, by the time you get this setup it would cost the same if not more than lithium.

Plus you need an approved inverter and approved installations. This is all highly regulated and inspected by the electric authorities. I seriously doubt you could legally connect up a home made Lead Acid jobbie.

 

[discomatt]

Plus you need an approved inverter and approved installations. This is all highly regulated and inspected by the electric authorities. I seriously doubt you could legally connect up a home made Lead Acid jobbie

I am sure I have mentioned it before but mt brother is totally off grid, his system is all self design with off the shelf components, put together himself with help from sparky mates and signed off, he just did a full battery replacement himself after living with 2nd hand batteries for years.
All up his system including computer programes to run it and back up generator he is well over 20k

 

[boobook]

I am sure I have mentioned it before but mt brother is totally off grid, his system is all self design with off the shelf components, put together himself with help from sparky mates and signed off, he just did a full battery replacement himself after living with 2nd hand batteries for years.
All up his system including computer programes to run it and back up generator he is well over 20k

Good stuff. I was referring to on grid connections which are more highly regulated and policed by the electric companies. I suspect you could just get a sparky as you describe for off grid. For on grid there are additional rules about feed in parameters like voltages, set points, frequency synchronisation etc above standard 240V wiring regs.

 

[Albynsw]

I'm not sure of the warranty details. I gave up when the payback was way out. I guess it will get cheaper and better over time. 12V lithiums as always getting cheaper.

I am guessing the warranty would be like Cooper Tire warranties, there would be a whole lot of parameters you need to stay within to qualify and is more of a marketing tool than a safeguard to consumers

 

[Toyasaurus]

The biggest problem with geothermal is drilling to the depth for the heat needed, it`s also why it`s so costly.
If they could develop a new drilling method and make a more closed loop system, it would be good.
So the system doesn`t use anywhere near as much water.
That`s always a worry in OZ.

 

[peterfermtech]

I love this argument that we should stop shipping coal. The world is not short of coal. It is just that Australia has better quality less polluting coal.
It's like when Masters closed. It didn't stop me buying hardware. It just forced me to go shopping at bunnings with the poorer quality service.

 

[Albynsw]

I love this argument that we should stop shipping coal. The world is not short of coal. It is just that Australia has better quality less polluting coal.
It's like when Masters closed. It didn't stop me buying hardware. It just forced me to go shopping at bunnings with the poorer quality service.

Agree 100%, if we stopped selling coal they would just buy it elsewhere. Our economy would take a massive hit with no upside apart from placebo effect of feeling good about it.

I don’t buy all this crap about the Australian government not doing enough regardless of which political persuasion they are. The reality is we are an insignificant player in the game and will follow the general world trends of the next new technologies that will replace coal.
Market forces will dictate that regardless of the government of the day.

 

[Les PK Ranger]

I love this argument that we should stop shipping coal. The world is not short of coal. It is just that Australia has better quality less polluting coal.

Just saying it's hypocritical to be selling it from here, anywhere, to anywhere else, when almost all govcos are pushing the climate change barrow.
China and India seems to be the worst right now for operating new new coal fired plants, US, India, Japan, some other pockets of countries, each burning way more than everyone else put together.
We are miniscule in problem, and miniscule in change to anything as we adapt to green power.

 

[Albynsw]

If you want to see hypocrisy have a look at Norway.
The country’s entire energy is produced from hydroelectric plants and I think they might have the highest rate per capita of electric vehicles but are in the top ten in the world of exporting fossil fuels to other nations