Auto's offroad

Blue4b

4x4 Earth Contributer
I am considering getting another auto in my next fourby.
I know they are crap for steep descents :eek: but wondered if anyone had fitted a lower reduction gear to fix this problem.
If you have, I am interested in what vehicle, motor and what reduction you installed/had installed.
Tony.
 

GippsSurfer

Member
ive got an auto in my Surf and it aint that bad... low 1st is pretty good at going down hill slowly...

ive gone from Binns rd (Walhalla) all the way down army track to Store point (donnelly creek rd) with no probs... sure, I was touching the brakes every now and then, but it didnt threaten to run away on me...

Maybe if your paj was a diesel it would be a different story???

Will have to catch up some time for a drive (Seeing as you are so close!)
 

Chucky

New Member
I heard of a technique where you put your foot on the brake and the accel, and keep your revs at around the 1800rpm mark. This locks up the stall converter allowing better engine braking.

I dont have a manual 4wd, this is only what I have been told, but I have been told this by a few different people who own auto's so there must be something in it:p
 

4X4

Moderator
I heard of a technique where you put your foot on the brake and the accel, and keep your revs at around the 1800rpm mark. This locks up the stall converter allowing better engine braking.

I dont have a manual 4wd, this is only what I have been told, but I have been told this by a few different people who own auto's so there must be something in it:p

Use this method for short periods only, as it will heat up the auto and the brakes!

I have a auto Patrol and needed to fit 43% reduction gears as the engine braking downhill was frightening. Putting bigger tyres compounds the problem and may negate some of the advantages. It may be necessary, if you fit larger tyres to change the diff ratio's as well.

Cheers Rossco
 

Blue4b

4x4 Earth Contributer
Hi Gipps
Should catch you at O'Tooles next month. The Paj isn't that bad but I got used to not needing the brakes at all with my last fourby (manual bravo).

Sorry but the idea of riding the brakes the whole time doesn't really sound like a solution to me.:eek:

Hi 4x4
This is the main reason for asking as I'm currently thinking of a live front 100 series petrol/gas with 33's, auto and reduction gear. Marks adaptors only have 25% reduction, I'm not sure if that is enough so your input is appreciated. I am hoping to check out some options at O'Tooles so I can learn from other peoples mistakes/successes before spending the money.
 

4X4

Moderator
Hi Gipps
Should catch you at O'Tooles next month. The Paj isn't that bad but I got used to not needing the brakes at all with my last fourby (manual bravo).

Sorry but the idea of riding the brakes the whole time doesn't really sound like a solution to me.:eek:

Hi 4x4
This is the main reason for asking as I'm currently thinking of a live front 100 series petrol/gas with 33's, auto and reduction gear. Marks adaptors only have 25% reduction, I'm not sure if that is enough so your input is appreciated. I am hoping to check out some options at O'Tooles so I can learn from other peoples mistakes/successes before spending the money.

Hi Tony,

A 100 series petrol auto with 25% reduction gears would be OK. Happy to have a chat at O'Tooles and go for a drive with you, if you want.

Cheers Rossco
 

GippsSurfer

Member
Hi Gipps
Should catch you at O'Tooles next month. The Paj isn't that bad but I got used to not needing the brakes at all with my last fourby (manual bravo).

Sorry but the idea of riding the brakes the whole time doesn't really sound like a solution to me.:eek:

i dont ride them all the time... just in some spots.. I dont know if its Surf specific, but it seems as though the torque convertor is locked up pretty much just off idle in 1st gear, low range...

Will catch up at O'Tooles some point over the weekend...

-- EDIT --

Im also running 31's and 4.88 diff gears (Standard) and I think low range is 2.55:1 in the transfer so maybe that helps a little..??..

----
 
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hianufgq

New Member
I have a Patrol TB42 auto with 80% reduction 35" tyres and 4.6 diff ratio and I dont need the brakes going down hill. A steep hill will require the brakes but I have heaps of engine brake.
 

Blue4b

4x4 Earth Contributer
Just to clear things up a bit, the Paj does ok going down hill, but when it gets steep you do need to give the brakes a touch now and again. This is probably quite acceptable but I have been used to not needing the brakes at all going down hill. The old Bravo manual used to practically run out of traction before it ran out of engine braking. I'm expecting the new rig to fall somewhere between the two.

Gipps, my comment about "riding the brakes" was in response to chuky's suggestion, not yours and I suspect the diesel may be better than the petrol.:(
As for hitting the trails, sounds good, that's half the reason I registered here.

Hia thanks for your input, sounds like a beast- with a decent collar on it.:)

Looking forward to catching up at O'Tooles.
 

GippsSurfer

Member
tis all good mate...
Ive read somewhere that newer petrol and diesels arent built as heavy and therefore engine braking suffers... dont know if their is any truth to it but either way, I need to get out there more often and conduct more research....
 

Stevesub

New Member
I have been down a lot of steep hills in both manuals and autos. I find with the autos you need to use the brakes and you can do it quite safely so long as you do not lock them - that is when everything turns to custard. Then you just have to get off the brakes and hope for the best.

There is one hill by lake Eildon in VIC that we had to use the brakes on in the Troopy which has a super low 1st gear - all a matter of keeping the vehicle slow and the momentum off. It was a very steep, very long very slippery hill and if you used the traditional method of accelerating when you loose grip in low first, you would really end up in the catus as the hill was so long and slippery.

I do not really like using the brakes downhill but it is where common sense and keeping the momentum down comes first.

I have friends who are fully qualified 4x4 trainers (that is their business) and they teach you to brake in those situations.

Stevesub
 

Quinny23

New Member
I own an 06 Hilux SR5 auto and although I do use the brakes on steep descents I dont think its an issue.

In the auto you do tend to use low range more to assist with the engine breaking but as has been said, dont lock up the wheels, keep the momentum down and remember that you are using your brakes so going down a steep hill into a river crossing should be broken with a smoke/beer/food/pi$$ or all of the above before getting in the drink to allow the brakes to cool of to a lower temp.
 

cptmud

New Member
I have driven both, and love the auto off road, steep decends can be tricky, but the trick is to drive through the brakes, low first and drive with 2 feet, that is to brake and accelerate at the same time, adjusting the throttle according to what the car is doing. This takes a bit to get used too, but is very effective.

The technique is to be locked into low range 1st and while still on the flat at the top of the hill, drive forward with the tacho reading 1500 revs. Now holding that accelerator position, place your left foot on the brake and slow the revs down to 800. As you progress down the hill you must not move the accelerator at all but change the force with your left foot braking to keep the revs at 800 until the bottom of the hill. If you should get some lockup you just ease you brake but do not change the right foot position.
The procedure works because you have a lot more torque at 1500 revs where you locked your foot into than at idle. This extra torque keeps the wheels turning to stop lockup while the braking keeps the speed under control. They say that some vehicles of small capacity will not be able to hold the 800 rpm so you have to find what is best for your vehicle.
I have not tried this yet but I think it has merit and look forward to trying it or hearing from someone once they have. Obviously you would try it on an easy hill first to get used to it and it will be harder for those that do not practice left foot braking all the time like they teach in advance driving schools which is why I learnt it a number of years ago
 
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