as they say --

ULost2

Well-Known Member
--- abuse it lose it
2017 06 0207.jpg
have noticed a few new ones since the last rains
I was going to post a few pics of serious 4x4/muddies damage but some here seem to get rather upset
 

Swaggie

Moderator
Where's that mate, I run Muddies but blatant abuse of camp areas and the bush in general really pisses me off...
 

ULost2

Well-Known Member
just outside mildura mate --- too much 'let's try the muddies/4b' and the likes when it rains --- if the tracks actually went somewhere; like a to b and no other way we could add a few maybies ; but most of the tracks I mention are not a to b or without another sealed or at least a gravel road to use. The car wash places bitch about the mud after we get a bit of rain here
will not be long before the shire/NP starts fining people as happens in NSW --- $1000 a wheel I believe; + cost to fix and there doesn't need to be a road crossed sign!
I love playing the mud as much anyone but someone has to fix the roads so others use it
 

dno67

Well-Known Member
I was almost going to start a thread yesterday after watching an episode of 4x4adventure club on
C31. What a pack of muppets driving through a boggy rutted wet road one after the other at a good speed
in the High Country, bad enough screening it on TV but pain stupid when there looked like a bypass track
around it in one place and a dry path to one side of the track in another.
Yer good on ya's, promoting stupidity to the mud pig sticker club, AKA the big tyre track bashes from the burbs.
 

MALIBL

Member
I was almost going to start a thread yesterday after watching an episode of 4x4adventure club on
C31. What a pack of muppets driving through a boggy rutted wet road one after the other at a good speed
in the High Country, bad enough screening it on TV but pain stupid when there looked like a bypass track around it in one place and a dry path to one side of the track in another.
Yer good on ya's, promoting stupidity to the mud pig sticker club, AKA the big tyre track bashes from the burbs.
Totally agree, I saw the exact same show and said exactly the same, Had just finished telling my wife and kids Today "this is blatant disrespect which is destroying the tracks", I love the High Country, Camping, 4WD Touring, Dirtbike riding but if they keep destroying the tracks like that we want have access anymore.
 

Swaggie

Moderator
Yeah that show must get repeated a lot. Couldnt quite figure out the road they are on, I thought it was in the Wonnangatta area but don't recall the track being that wet although I mainly go in there over summer...
 

ULost2

Well-Known Member
then we get damage like this because some feel the need to be DHs
gotta love the tracks heading off into or out from the bush ffs. Honest thought to be as fair if possible --- there is a chance they were going around a very badly ripped up part of the main formed track, but .............. .
the track in the last pic looks rather fresh to me -- maybe they just wanted to wash the crap off the 4be
I was standing in the middle of the track length in the 3rd
2017 05  0030.jpg 2017 06 0238.jpg 2017 06 0243.jpg 2017 06 0244.jpg
this is where we are before someone tries to defend all of them for going from A to B --- there might be a couple caught out while camping but .......
The river tracks are made so everyone in any sort of a vehicle or bike can get out there but atm the tracks are rougher than the worst corrugations so I guess we will see more logs and posts across the lesser used tracks to cut the upkeep cost

as they say-- abuse it lose it
 

darb

Well-Known Member
So how does this issue get fixed?

It's rampant. Go onto any of the social media 4wd groups on Facebook, there are tens of thousands of participants every single day talking about mud piggin' antics, going bush intentionally in the wet ... taking pride in getting stuck up to their bonnets in wet muddy water. Winching off trees, cutting down trees, taking craps without digging holes, smashing glass into fires and leaving their crap behind.

It's become the normal cultural behaviour and any criticism is met with widespread aggression / ignorance. We're a nation that doesn't respect any conservative / modest lines of thinking, doesn't favour intelligence, and instead dumb meat-headed psychology is favoured.

So, how do you fix it?
 

rogerazz

4x4 Earth Contributer
Glad you brought it up, so I can repeat for the hundreth time my way of stopping this.
This is a copy of a copy of a copy., of a copy of what I have posted and will continue to post whenever I get the chance.
This applies to damage in the bush as well.
This is a copy of my comments on another thread referring to rubbish, however this could be applied to any wrong doings in the bush. I will keep harping on this as a practical way of overcoming the problem. I have written to people including Roothy and I will keep doing this until something is done. Actions speak louder than words....:eek:''
I say again...........
My quote " I keep seeing complaints in lots of threads about rubbish in the bush including by a lot of 4wdérs. Nothing has changed????
I will repeat again for the hundreth time until someone in authority or with a bit of pull takes notice.
Annual $30.00 ( or whatever) bush driving permit to be carried at all times while on tracks, in forests, parks, whatever.
This pays for Rangers to patrol, especially holidays, weekends, ( usually when ferals come out).
If caught with no permit, rubbish dumping, damage, etc. .. heavy fines, confiscations, court appearances, whatever.
Rangers can also educate those they come across and give warning notices.
Please don't say "it can't be done, it's not cost effective, why should I ?, it won't work, etc. etc.
It has to work and someone has to make it bloody work.:mad:.
Or just hang about and keep records of lock outs, restrictions, whatever and say, "Well, I told you so"????????? Doh!

Azza.
 

darb

Well-Known Member
Yeah I have a few ideas of my own also , those being ;

On the topic of rubbish ;
1) Increase the fines for littering ten-fold.
2) Offer a small fee / reward for dobbing in a litterer.

On top of crap behaviour this gets a lot harder because , apparently (don't attack me , im just the messenger) the way our systems work, it's actually quite hard to get a "serious fine" applied to someone ... all sorts of requirements for it to stand up in court, etc, we all have too many "rights". A simple phone call of "i saw this number plate out bush and i think he had been ripping up tracks". Rangers may well say it's a police issue. Police? Well gee they have all the resources and time in the world don't they.

I've spoken first hand with DPAW and affiliated rangers who say that culturally within the organisation, they have to be very, very, very careful about even accusing someone of something ... let alone getting someone dragged into court to give out a big fine.
I was talking to one just recently who shall remain nameless in a location I won't mention, he was telling me they'd closed a certain section of tracks in a remote area due heavy rains ... a member of the public got mighty pissed about it, knew someone in government, made a phone call to someone up high ... and then low and behold an angry phone call from "head office" telling rangers to stop telling people off for using mud tracks and to open the gate and pipe down.

Who knows, I sure don't.

Personally I liked ULA"s "dob in a dickhead" campaign which aimed to shame people , but it died in the bottom shortly after conception and I don't know what happened to it.
I think the biggest issue is tackling the cultural norms that make people want to do it.

We have to be careful what we wish for if we keep complaining to parks / dpaw / rangers / councils about the terrible behavour and rubbish ... because their most effective option is to GATE IT (which many in land management actually WANT anyway, let alone when they're given a mandate to do it).

Have to remember, these government bureaucracies operate under their heavy frameworks, with their heavy "management plans". They have 900 page risk mitigation strategies and management plans, on how to take a crap.

Not at all disagreeing with you rogerazz, but with the realities in view, I have to wonder what *other* avenues we have on the cultural front.

Perhaps if the "mud tearing magazines" moderated their message it might help, but it sells accessories and I doubt they will.
 

ULost2

Well-Known Member
bloody big fines --- hidden cameras -- - tow/lock vehicles up as with hoon laws --- higher rego for modified 4bies (whoops; I spilt the petrol there :D
another thought I have is too many expect their 4x4 to go anywhere they care to steer it; if they do not get 'there' they add more mods and try the totally impossible . If a vehicle needs all the these mods we see today to get 'there' then perhaps a vehicle is not meant to get there --- yeah I know i'm becoming old fart; but I don't understand many of the mods seemingly needed today

The real problem; DHs cannot be educated
 

dno67

Well-Known Member
I also think threads like this bringing attention to this poor behavior and ethics can help change the idea's of those
responsible for such action. The more that voice there there discontent, the more chance that others will find a thread
and possibly see there wrongs.
I'd be happy if there were was a dedicated mud pig area or two, say few acres somewhere they could call home.
group them all together and let them trash somewhere with a low environment impact, an old tip site or something.
 

darb

Well-Known Member
I also think threads like this bringing attention to this poor behavior and ethics can help change the idea's of those
responsible for such action. The more that voice there there discontent, the more chance that others will find a thread
and possibly see there wrongs.
I'd be happy if there were was a dedicated mud pig area or two, say few acres somewhere they could call home.
group them all together and let them trash somewhere with a low environment impact, an old tip site or something.

It does, a little, the issue is the massive explosion in the past 5 - 10 years in people actually getting into 4wd'ing. They treat it as an extreme sport, as a culturally identifiable lifestyle (as we all do).

Problem is, an awful lot simply won't have a bar of being told to calm it down, they'll tell you to "f*7k off sook, it's just a bit of fun, ill cave your head in" at the first sentence. It's endemic to a larger issue with our society where we've become hyper.

There's also varying degrees of it, not everyone who's guilty of it are meatheads either, I've seen my own mates rip up vegetated dunes before when exiting a camp site ... why? "dunno didn't think much of it, it's just a bush" is the thinking. I personally have cut donuts in dunes in younger years, and done fishies down a beach (not infront or anywhere near anyone else), so even my own behaviour could easily be scrutinised.

The problem is when there's hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of 4wd's out there all doing the same thing ... then "it's just a bit of fun, it's just a bit of bush who cares" becomes a massive problem.

Any behaviour should be cross checked against the question "does this cause harm?" ... i.e. does it damage the area? or if its some fishies down the beach, doing it in eyesight of others is going to embolden the culture and next week you've got more doing it, 30 feet from families who are parked up on the sand, then you're doing the image of 4wd'ing harm.
 

smitty_r51

Well-Known Member
There are too many people in the "don't give a f%%%" group.

Loud music, rubbish, anti social behaviour, ethics. Across the board not just 4x4ing.

All i can do is be someone who does give a f%%% and act in a manner i want others to act.

Teach my kids to act in that same manner.

Hopefully as more people do the right thing, the idiots will stop themselves out of embarrassment.

We saw it with smoking, smoking was cool, everyone should smoke... Look at it these days, smoking is bad, smoking is sociably unacceptable in a lot of places and smokers are now thrust aside and have to score out of the way... I know people who have quit because they were fed up of having to go away... But that to 30 years for attitudes to change, we can only hope this behaviour we see these days reverses quicker...

That or it is time for a cull :D
 

rogerazz

4x4 Earth Contributer
Agreed, their are thousands of 4wd'ers out their who believe it is their right to have tracks open, while doing damage.
Everyone has their own interpretation on what is OK and what is not OK.
Dobbing in wont work, ( I took pics, regos, witness statements, etc. reported in writing and case never proceeded:rolleyes:.)
Approaching someone who you reckon is doing wrong can be dangerous and wont work.
Therefore..
1. Laws must be specific, especially 4wd ing in the bush.
2. The laws for 4wdíng must be written on reverse side of permits issued annually for a fee of $50.00 and carried at all times.
3. Authorized and armed law enforcers to deal with it not the public.
Then those who reckon it's OK to do anything can go find a 4wd farm and pay for it.:).
As a hunter in the parks, forests, bush, private land, etc., I have to be a member of at least one shooting organization ( me two), pay for that membership, hold and pay for gun licence, hold and pay for shooting permits, have permission to be there and stiff if I get caught doing the wrong thing. Loss of guns, camping equipment, vehicles and possibly jail.:eek:
Read this.
http://www.gma.vic.gov.au/enforcement/authorised-officers
 
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