Am i missing something?

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Rhett HS

Well-Known Member
#61
Right now the track is in good shape and basically 2wd apart from the fallen trees. Even though its just rained and its wet there's no meaningfully slushy bits, just a short section with up to maybe 3 inches of snow. If you closed it now for reason of preservation, then for the same reason you would close pretty much all dirt roads in australia.

The road serves as a valuable transit route through the high country. If more vehicles drove the track the fallen trees would get cleared quicker and there would be more of a safety net if anything went wrong.
 

dno67

Well-Known Member
#62
It's not a new closure, been like that for years. So whats the problem ?Apart from a big arse sign. Which you,d have to actually drive out there to see first before making a disscisson anyway. If your that informed, experienced and that sure nothing's going to stop you, ld shut up and drive it. Just don't go banging on all over the internet attracting every idiot that thinks there the next tuff truck champion and going to have a crack to see what it's about. Thats how track do get shut and gated.
 
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nitrobrent

Active Member
#63
Sorry but I don't believe it is an issue of litigation but an issue of believing it is your right to put other peoples life at risk because you have an oversized opinion of your ability. Comments like "If the rescuer gets up there and there is 3 feet of snow, then park the car and walk to the bogged, walk them back to your car, drop them off at a hotel or whatever, and let them sort it?" show a complete lack of understanding of the conditions and is totally beyond comprehension. Maybe Rhett Hs needs to go for a walk in 3 feet of snow just to see how easy it is.o_O
Does anyone here know you can die from exposure to the cold? http://snowsafe.org.au/hypothermia-prevention-recognition-and-treatment/
regards
Hes got a mighty Amarok , he doesnt need to walk
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
#65
Right now the track is in good shape and basically 2wd apart from the fallen trees. Even though its just rained and its wet there's no meaningfully slushy bits, just a short section with up to maybe 3 inches of snow. If you closed it now for reason of preservation, then for the same reason you would close pretty much all dirt roads in australia.

The road serves as a valuable transit route through the high country. If more vehicles drove the track the fallen trees would get cleared quicker and there would be more of a safety net if anything went wrong.
So are we to assume you drove it illegally then?
 

Choook

Well-Known Member
#66
Instead of saying everyone on here is a sissy and expounding your knowledge (or lack thereof), why don't you take this up with the relevant authorities and express your disgust of their rules and regulations and try to change their minds?? Start a petition or write to your local member of parliament, or council. Going off chops here will achieve exactly what it has achieved so far.........nothing.
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
#72
Thinking a bit more about this seasonal closure l had a look at the relivent council map. If you look at the Mansfield shire map, the logistics with maintenance on that road would be a nightmare should the road need work during winter.
To maintain it over winter would be about the same as the Alpine Way through Hotham. So snow blowers, graders, snow ploughs and 4wd work vehicles complete with crews to man them. So guessing maybe 10+ mill a year. Even with all that equipment the Alpine way gets closed. On one occasion last year I think it was closed for 4 or 5 days straight.
regards
 

Paddler Ed

Well-Known Member
#73
Comparing the conditions of a High Country track to the roads in Europe or the USA/Canada is a bit of a red herring:
1) Roads in Europe get ploughed, gritted and generally kept open on a daily basis if they are major arterial roads. If not, they get nothing - our local roads get cleared by the local farmers in their tractors.
2) Some of those roads require chains in certain conditions
3) Some European countries and American/Canadian States/Provinces require winter tyres (not all terrains or mud tyres if they don't have the snow flake on them) which perform very differently to an All Season (even a soft roader OEM tyre with a snow flake)
4) Grip to get moving is different to grip to stopping...
5) They're bitumen roads, not dirt tracks.

We've driven the RWD BMW below in the snow where the 4x4s were not working well; the BMW had winter tyres on all the wheels (that meant we had some steering, braking and go ability) whereas the 4x4s were on ATs. The problem was the 4x4s thought they were invincible so drove normally and got it wrong.
425777_10151515321424771_398445213_n.jpg

(Yes, we drove the car out of that snow - in fact, I took it in preference to the brand new Volvo XC70 that was also in the driveway - it wouldn't climb back up the driveway however, as the snow was too compacted to ball in the sipes in the tyres)

However, both of us are quite used to driving in snow - it has no novelty, and is actually just a pain in the arse after the first 2 or 3 days - and I've spent time in the hills in the snow. That car would go out with a load of blankets in the back, a snow shovel and a tow rope, as well as a flask and spare fuel if a longer journey.

Your approach Rhett to the snow shows why it's so dangerous NOT to have roads closed:
1) Most Australian first aid courses are more used to dealing with hyperthermia as opposed to hypothermia - Aussie's don't understand how dangerous the cold is. Hypothermia sets in really quickly, and is really hard to recover from if not done properly.
2) Navigating in snow is bloody hard, especially where there are hills etc involved and you can't get it wrong at the edge
3) Walking in snow is hard, much more than walking normally - we did a hill once that was a comfortable 4hr walk in the summer, it was about 6hrs in the snow.
4) Rescuers don't enjoy getting called out to preventable rescues... and they certainly don't like going to preventable recoveries (there is a difference in Mountain Rescue language there)
5) If it's a valuable route across the HC, there is a good reason to close it, and that might be it's more important to the locals than to the tourists, so bugger the tourists (or, as they sometimes get called in the UK, Tourons)
6) Yes, snow is pretty; yes, snow is a novelty in Australia. No, it's not a good idea to make unnecessary journeys in it. We see it here in the New England; every time there's a chance of snow there is an equally big flurry of people trying to find out where the snow is - and they're travelling from Brisbane or the coast to get to it. Is that really necessary? Well, given that the RMS will close some of the roads because of snow (at about 1340m) it's not really worth the risk.
 
#74
I think most people that live in areas that get snow would laugh at the rule. Its only there because snow is uncommon in australia.

Tell the story to an Alaskan, Canadian, Icelander, northern european, argentinian, etc, even someone from the UK(?), you will give them a hearty chuckle.
.
The people that have grown up in freezing temps.

I'm not sure the local Words Point Copper would see the same funny side or the Jamieson Recovery guy.

He told me a story years ago how an older lady in a Ford made a left turn down Lazzarini Spur Track with her dogs. They had to stay in the vehicle overnight before she could walk for help.He had to basically scull drag the vehicle to the bottom to recover it...

So your not going to change anyone's mind regarding this closure but when you write to the relevant Authorities about it and it's different answer to "NO WE WON'T OPEN THIS ROAD OVER WINTER REPLY" I for one would love to hear from you...;)
 

Paddler Ed

Well-Known Member
#75
Also, who is going to wear the cost of clearing the road? The local rate payers who (probably) have no interest in necessarily using the road as there is an alternative to the south that is open, and I suspect that those in Jamieson would go to Mansfield, whilst Licola would go to the South for major services outside of their areas.

I think most people that live in areas that get snow would laugh at the rule. Its only there because snow is uncommon in australia.

Tell the story to an Alaskan, Canadian, Icelander, northern european, argentinian, etc, even someone from the UK(?), you will give them a hearty chuckle.
Have a look at the Snow gates at Cafraemill on the A68 - this is the main route from the Scottish Borders into Edinburgh:
https://goo.gl/maps/XaLauKErjY89oFTB6

Those big yellow gates? Yep, when it's snowy or icy, they will get closed. Doesn't matter what you drive, that road is closed to you.
 

Rhett HS

Well-Known Member
#76
To maintain it over winter would be about the same as the Alpine Way through Hotham. So snow blowers, graders, snow ploughs and 4wd work vehicles complete with crews to man them. So guessing maybe 10+ mill a year. Even with all that equipment the Alpine way gets closed. On one occasion last year I think it was closed for 4 or 5 days straight.
regards
Why would they maintain it over winter? I dont see why they should be under any obligation to maintain it to a standard, since they can ban it, and it can become impassable, its not considered critical.

So people are saying it should be banned because?

There are idiots in the population that are proven to ignore good warning signs and get themselves into trouble?
Curiosity killed the cat?
There arent actually 4wders keen on doing rescues there?

People trying to shut down a thread again, because they cant handle facts or reason contrary to their own beliefs or syncophancy. Why havent they moved to china yet, they should love it. No freedom of speech or discussion there.
 

Bomber2012

Well-Known Member
#77
Why would they maintain it over winter? I dont see why they should be under any obligation to maintain it to a standard, since they can ban it, and it can become impassable, its not considered critical.

So people are saying it should be banned because?

There are idiots in the population that are proven to ignore good warning signs and get themselves into trouble?
Curiosity killed the cat?
There arent actually 4wders keen on doing rescues there?

People trying to shut down a thread again, because they cant handle facts or reason contrary to their own beliefs or syncophancy. Why havent they moved to china yet, they should love it. No freedom of speech or discussion there.
fullsizeoutput_ffb.jpeg
 

Outrage

4x4 Earth Contributer
#78
Multiple web sites/places have the closure information. There's a sign about the road closure back near Heyfield, there's one at Licola and there's another further up the hill. The road is in good condition because it was graded recently. Once you put a lot of traffic over a dirt road in the winter months, they quickly deteriorate.

Snowboarding etc is an extreme sport, people willingly get the gear, go up a mountain and go down. Meanwhile someone in a Kia can go for a drive...

In Aus, accessing ski resorts requires chain fitment on a tarmac road. Mt Skene is not a ski resort, is a dirt road in the middle of nowhere that appears as a major road on maps. High country weather changes very quickly. It can be sunny and warm down at Licola, and once you go a few km's up that hill you're in a storm. Icy conditions, slide off a cliff, plow into a fallen over tree buried in the snow, vehicle break down, no phone service... it may only be 50 km's to the nearest town but it's still 2 hrs to the nearest hospital on a good day, it could be days in other conditions. You might get so far, road is impassable, turn around and find trees have fallen down since. Few people going for a day trip have supplies for a week.

There are many reasons to restrict people from that road over winter and only a few to keep it open.

Victoria has many seasonal closures, Mt Skene is not the only place that is shut down over winter. https://parkweb.vic.gov.au/safety/closures/seasonal-road-closures2. Many of those are simple 2wd tracks in dry conditions too.

https://traffic.vicroads.vic.gov.au/incidents/3678583
1562235041294.png


Just exiting Licola
1562235152175.png
 

Rhett HS

Well-Known Member
#79
Instead of saying everyone on here is a sissy and expounding your knowledge (or lack thereof), why don't you take this up with the relevant authorities and express your disgust of their rules and regulations and try to change their minds?? Start a petition or write to your local member of parliament, or council. Going off chops here will achieve exactly what it has achieved so far.........nothing.
One thing this thread does is that if there are people on this forum with relevant knowledge i get to learn some things.

Another reason is that i get to express and discuss some views.
 

Barra GU

Well-Known Member
#80
Does the snow ever get 3 feet deep at skene? Can anyone even get a 4wd through 3 feet of snow to get in trouble that deep? If they do, there will be wheel tracks to walk in if the rescuers approach from the same direction. If there is snow and a rescuer cant walk through it, they are unprepared and they possibly shouldnt be there.

It sounds like unprepared or lazy or sissy police or workplace ohs laws are a significant cause of the ban?

Yeah mate ive seen it that deep before. We've rescued people on it a few times and all the rigs were 37s or 40s or 46 inch tyres twin locked..

Was still difficult but we had the mog up front clearing the way on the 46ers then followed by jeep on 40s then 37s.. the guys we resued were on 35s and 37s
 
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