Albo seems to be off to a good start

mikehzz

Well-Known Member
Doesn’t everyone and It is just the tall poppie ones that are an easier target? And of course if they made their money from being a sportsman or a rockstar they are a heroe but if they made it by being business savvy and dedicated to hard work they are a scrounge
Sportsmen and rock stars shouldn't be paid at all. It's one of the things that used to be better in the past. Sportsmen were amateurs and musicians were struggling minstrels, both doing it for the love of it. Yet another example of greed and consumerism polluting the world. Lot's of money is the reward and everyone should be doing it? I think you're missing my point entirely. You can excel for other reasons than financial reward that ultimately corrupts. How much money is enough?
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
Sportsmen and rock stars shouldn't be paid at all. It's one of the things that used to be better in the past. Sportsmen were amateurs and musicians were struggling minstrels, both doing it for the love of it. Yet another example of greed and consumerism polluting the world. Lot's of money is the reward and everyone should be doing it? I think you're missing my point entirely. You can excel for other reasons than financial reward that ultimately corrupts. How much money is enough?

I understand your point Mike and in a fantasy world agree with it but isn’t it just human nature that some are driven to exceed in their chosen field of interest and money is one measure for some of that achievement? fir others it is irrelevant and would do it regardless of the financial reward
If we took money out of it then would they have more cows or chickens or whatever commodity the community they live in trades or values.

How much money is enough? When you have more than you could spend it is irrelevant but it just shows that these type of people are driven by being successful in their chosen arena much more so than the money. Do you tell these people you have to stop being good at what they do and go sit at home and wait to die because according to your or my measure in life you have done enough?
 

mikehzz

Well-Known Member
I understand your point Mike and in a fantasy world agree with it but isn’t it just human nature that some are driven to exceed in their chosen field of interest and money is one measure for some of that achievement? fir others it is irrelevant and would do it regardless of the financial reward
If we took money out of it then would they have more cows or chickens or whatever commodity the community they live in trades or values.

How much money is enough? When you have more than you could spend it is irrelevant but it just shows that these type of people are driven by being successful in their chosen arena much more so than the money. Do you tell these people you have to stop being good at what they do and go sit at home and wait to die because according to your or my measure in life you have done enough?
I don't understand why you think I want them to stop being good and go home? There's no reason for them to stop, you seem to be implying that the only reason for them to continue is to keep the excess money pouring in. There needs to be a paradigm shift in peopl's values. In my perfect world, nobody receives more than say $200k-$300k per year, nobody gets much money for doing nothing, and all the excess money builds hospitals, schools, roads, powers research etc. I'm against making it easy for people to bludge at either end of the spectrum, dole bludgers and rich people living off dividends. Neither provide anything useful. It may sound bit capitalist/communist but I think that the centre of the spectrum is always the best, it's a fact that things driven by excess money create greed and corruption. It's disgusting and I don't support the concept....in my perfect world. :)
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
Sounds a bit too much communist style control to me
If someone wants to own a dozen boats , cars, houses etc and he has earned the right I don’t think it is right to stop him just like at the other end of the spectrum if you don’t want to work and want to live off bin diving that is the choices you make
Australia is a land of opportunity and anyone can be anything they want if they have the required skills and determination
Who is to say what the standard should be and that my standard of living is the right balance that others should follow
I am happy with my lot in life and don’t begrudge those that work harder/ smarter than me because they want more than me, they probably aren’t as happy as me anyway :D
 

mikehzz

Well-Known Member
I don't want to force the change on people, I want people to recognize that they should change and the general guidline that would be acceptible. Most people wouldn't sit at a table and stuff themselves silly till they exploded like in that old Monty Python skit. People find it unacceptible and personally control themselves. That should apply to the accumulation of personal wealth and what to do with the excess.
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
Most wouldn’t sit at a table and stuff themselves??
Really, have you not observed the size of some that walk into take away shops such as mc chuks, dirty bird or the local greasy ?
 

denk

Active Member
I'm happy to put my carbon profile up against yours any day of the week. My entire home occupies less than 25 square metres and for 90% of the time runs entirely off solar power.

If there was a practical alternative to my diesel powered vehicle, I would quite happily buy it.
wow.... you're amazing.
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
About 10 years ago I built a new home for a retired couple who was the Australian representative for a French fast train company and he spent the last 10 years if his career and his company invested 20 million dollars into trying to get a VFT rail link between Sydney and Melbourne with a stop at Goulburn
He had all the stats and figures of how it was quicker and cheaper for domestic passengers than by air but they couldn’t get the government on board to get it happening
First problem - they would have needed a stop in Canberra to get the pollies on board. But getting trains in and out of Canberra is a problem, due to the terrain.

Second problem - the VFT relies on having terminal stations in Sydney and Melbourne close to the CBD to get all those business travellers on board. Well, it did pre-covid at any rate - the whole work from home world has changed the dynamics a lot and may have dealt the VFT a death blow. But the issue here is that Sydney Central and Melbourne Southern Cross are crowded and pretty much at capacity - getting the VFT into those stations will likely require extensive and expensive tunnelling. In Sydney, the new Metro system is making access to Central even harder.

Third problem - convincing people it is, indeed, quicker and cheaper. Cheaper is, I guess, pretty simple to prove.
But quicker? That relies on people believing the spin about times getting to, from and through airports and how early you have to be at the airport for your plane. Whether or not you have luggage plays an important role here as there is an expectation that on the train your baggage could travel in the same carriage as you, eliminating the airport luggage carousel dance time.

Fourth problem - all the VFT scenarios have relied on some pretty bullish assumptions about population growth, population densities and the uptake of VFT travel within the general population. Those assumptions make or break the VFT argument and Covid has once again upset the apple cart with the changes to where people are choosing to live.

If this discussion was being had in Europe, China, or Japan it would be a no-brainer. On the US coasts (especially west coast) you would think it would be a no-brainer, but it's never happened there.
Will we see VFT in Oz? I think definitely yes. Will it happen in my lifetime? Definitely maybe no.
 

Mick_Marsh

Active Member
Second problem - the VFT relies on having terminal stations in Sydney and Melbourne close to the CBD to get all those business travellers on board. Well, it did pre-covid at any rate - the whole work from home world has changed the dynamics a lot and may have dealt the VFT a death blow. But the issue here is that Sydney Central and Melbourne Southern Cross are crowded and pretty much at capacity - getting the VFT into those stations will likely require extensive and expensive tunnelling. In Sydney, the new Metro system is making access to Central even harder.
I'm thinking some "out of the box" thinking is required.
Look at aircraft. Possibly the major competitor to the VFT. Do they land in the city?
Yes, they have shuttles and you could grab a helicopter if you are that busy. I'm told, Tullamarine Airport already has a railway station under it.
Why not have the VFT link the two major airports in Sydney with the two major airports in Melbourne? You could even extend the service to the Tasmanian ferry service.
You could also build the much discussed suburban line to Tullamarine for city access. Add to that, ther would be a rail service between the two Sydney airports and a rail service between the two Melbourne airports.
 

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Mick_Marsh

Active Member
Isn’t one of the major drawing cards of fast rail not having to commute out of the cbd to the airport?
I don't know about you but, whenever I have used air travel, I have never traveled to the airport via the city. Going via the city would only add time to the trip.
The destination has never been a city for me and the departure point has never been the city. I do not live in the city.

So, whenever you travel interstate, do you travel to the city before traveling to the airport?
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
Interesting how the energy crisis is highlighting that we no longer have suitable base load power because of the abandonment of coal power and gas exploration. I guess the electric train public transport system in our cities will probably grind to a halt around mid afternoon as the sun goes down without having sufficient gas to run the boilers. At least it is still raining so the few dams we do have may keep the hospitals open.
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
Interesting how the energy crisis is highlighting that we no longer have suitable base load power because of the abandonment of coal power and gas exploration. I guess the electric train public transport system in our cities will probably grind to a halt around mid afternoon as the sun goes down without having sufficient gas to run the boilers. At least it is still raining so the few dams we do have may keep the hospitals open.

This has been my grind point all along with this whole green energy stuff and abandoning coal now
There are the usual crowd who choose to ignore the facts but the reality is we don’t have the technology to move away from these products now unless we want to go back to walking and living with candlelight
I am all for the change but you have to be realistic and honest about the situation
The Ukrainian war has also exposed how much those countries who purport to be living green and condemning us are just fudging the numbers to look good
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
The no nuclear, no dams, no coal, no gas, city dwellers living in their own sheltered little bubble might be in for a bit of a shock.

Of course they'll blame the previous government for selling our gas overseas. The same gas that they were telling us was evil and we need to free ourselves from it.
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
Agree Kippie. I put the blame on the "Teal" type journalists/influencers who's only part in life is to give an opinion rather than a solution. Sadly what we have ended up with is a population and governments that believe the whole solution is to just totally abandon fossil fuels and everything will be all right.
Well the current situation shows that it is just a little bit more complex.
 
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