Albo seems to be off to a good start

Kippie

Moderator
Yes. I remember that famous consensus which included Professor Dumbledor.
It was once scientific consensus that the earth was flat, the earth was the centre of the universe and that bodies only moved whilst there was a force being applied.
The problem with the current "climate crisis" is that it is prediction. Prediction is different to what is measured.
That chart you posted is from cei.org, a conservative anti government, anti regulations, anti climate think tank. Hardly credible science.
 

denk

Active Member
Listen to the consensus of most scientists and you'll likely be on the right track. Science works hard to prove theory's and to disprove theory's. There's millions of them across the world doing it. If Koonin was onto something real, there would be thousands of scientists working to back up his theory, or disprove his theory with science.
Of course SciAm would have an article against Koonin! I would not expect anything less from that mob. You should have a look into who funds Scientific American and how they game their data for a number of research items... we could go on and on. Either of us could provide a plethora of sources to back up our claims. "It's official. Scientific American will publish absolutely anything." so says American council on Science and Health. SciAm makes its first every endorsement for President in its 175 year history... Joe Biden (absolutely hilarious). SciAM is corporate funded science...ask one of their biggest donors... big pharma. Even the left-wing The Guardian newspaper pulled climate studies it published by SciAm due to it looking similar to a piece of Swiss cheese as far back as 2011. If one is familiar with SciAm, they would know SciAm is the science equivalent to People Magazine or Who Weekly. Cheers :)
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
Right through history, scientists like every other member of the community have fallen to the temptation to exaggerate or manipulate the data. With the billions of dollars dedicated to climate change do people not think that there is a little bit going on.
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
That depends on which experts you listen to and what form of "modelling" is used. Professor Steven Koonin is an excellent scientist. Its happening but its at an extremely slow rate and not worth crying over. Check out his book "Unsettled: What Climate Science Tells Us, What It Doesnt and Why It Matters". He was the under secretary for science at the US Dept of Energy under Obama
I quote: From 2004 to 2009, Koonin was employed by BP as the oil and gas company’s Chief Scientist.

Hardly someone I would trust about climate change.
 

mikehzz

Well-Known Member
I think trust nobody, just look with your eyes. We're destroying the environment, stop doing that and the rest takes care of itself. The climate change people are more likely to help the environment, the big money corporations are more likely to destroy the environment. It's not rocket science.
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
Do you mean like the big big ones such as Amazon and Tesla?
You mean Amazon doesn't use massive amounts of wasteful packaging shipping non-essential products to consumers in an ever-increasing drive to promote rampant consumerism for products that are neither really needed or durable?
You mean that Amazon promotes products that are durable and recyclable so as to reduce demand for landfill or other waste disposal strategies.
You mean that Amazon has a commitment to sustainable production, to reducing waste, to reducing the use of plastics, to promoting recycling of their products and to building return/recycling streams to manage those life-expired products?
You mean that Amazon has a commitment to ethical employment practices, to improving working conditions in their "fulfilment centres", to ensuring their suppliers also have ethical work practices?

Sorry, which Amazon are you talking about? Because it's sure as hell not the Amazon I know.

As for Tesla...
Does Tesla support and insist on sustainable and ethical mining of their key components - especially lithium, nickel and cobalt?
Does Tesla have a process for 100% recycling of its vehicles and batteries?
Does Tesla have control over the management and recycling of their batteries?

And, of course, the answer to all this is NO. Have a look at this article about Tesla battery recycling

So don't promote Amazon and Tesla as the White Knights in Shining Armour contributing to sustainability and pollution reduction for our brave new world.
 

John U

Well-Known Member
It was once scientific consensus that the earth was flat, the earth was the centre of the universe and that bodies only moved whilst there was a force being applied.
You know who proved it wrong? Scientists.

I think trust nobody, just look with your eyes. We're destroying the environment, stop doing that and the rest takes care of itself. The climate change people are more likely to help the environment, the big money corporations are more likely to destroy the environment. It's not rocket science.
I look at it like this. The planet is approx 4,500,000,000 years old.
To be conservative, lets say that the fossil fuels we are burning now were produced by nature and geological processes over the last 100,000,000 years.
Over the last 250 years since the beginning of the industrial revolution humans have massively increased the rate at which they extract an burn fossil fuels.
Simultaneous to that humans have massively increased the rate at which the cut destroy the things that absorb carbon from the atmosphere.
Simultaneous to that the population of the planet has to 8,000,000,000 people with greater consumption per person.

Timeline looks like this
4,500,000,000 age of earth
100,000,000 beginning of fossil fuels created (conservative estimate)
250 years ago beginning industrial revolution, massive and continuing uptick in fossil fuel extraction
250 years ago beginning massive and continuing uptick in fossil fuel consumption
250 years ago beginning massive and continuing uptick in destruction of things that absorb CO2 from atmosphere
200 years ago to now world population goes from 1,000,000,000 to 8,000,000,000 with increasing consumption for every individual

If you don't think these numbers will have a rapidly increasing impact on the environment and the atmosphere I don't know what would convince you.

Edit world population has increased 8 fold in the last 200 years.
 
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Corndoggy

Well-Known Member
Looks like sitting across the table will be Peter Dutton. Now there's a job to rebrand the goose so he looks better to the public in softening his outlooks and personality. All just part of a BIG CON. He is how he is. How can you change what has been for all the time he was in a party in power. Now in opposition he is the best they have for a leader, but we have to change him, do a make over, so poeple see him in a better light. They are a party in shambles. They lost their way and still following the path that got them lost in the first place.

PS. There's a striking resemblance to Voldemort there, all he needs is a dried stick to wave around. Pity he can't cast a Evanesco spell and be done with it.
 
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peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
You mean Amazon doesn't use massive amounts of wasteful packaging shipping non-essential products to consumers in an ever-increasing drive to promote rampant consumerism for products that are neither really needed or durable?
You mean that Amazon promotes products that are durable and recyclable so as to reduce demand for landfill or other waste disposal strategies.
You mean that Amazon has a commitment to sustainable production, to reducing waste, to reducing the use of plastics, to promoting recycling of their products and to building return/recycling streams to manage those life-expired products?
You mean that Amazon has a commitment to ethical employment practices, to improving working conditions in their "fulfilment centres", to ensuring their suppliers also have ethical work practices?

Sorry, which Amazon are you talking about? Because it's sure as hell not the Amazon I know.

As for Tesla...
Does Tesla support and insist on sustainable and ethical mining of their key components - especially lithium, nickel and cobalt?
Does Tesla have a process for 100% recycling of its vehicles and batteries?
Does Tesla have control over the management and recycling of their batteries?

And, of course, the answer to all this is NO. Have a look at this article about Tesla battery recycling

So don't promote Amazon and Tesla as the White Knights in Shining Armour contributing to sustainability and pollution reduction for our brave new world.
I was subtly implying that the darling protagonists of the climate change movement are amongst the worst offenders when it comes to their behavior. Their promotion of consumerism is the most destructive underlying issue we face. So my apologies for not being direct enough for you.
 

Chatty

Well-Known Member
I was subtly implying that the darling protagonists of the climate change movement are amongst the worst offenders when it comes to their behavior. Their promotion of consumerism is the most destructive underlying issue we face. So my apologies for not being direct enough for you.
Sorry, the sarcasm was a little subtle for this boofhead. I think what I said indicates that I agree with you. Amazon are most probably responsible for more pollution than the whole of Africa.
And don't start me on Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk and the pollution their egos cause in the space race.
 

Mick_Marsh

Active Member
You know who proved it wrong? Scientists.
Yep, that is the nature of science. Accepted science on the day can be changed in the future.
The mere fact that there are scientists that can prove the change in climate is more to do with other factors (i.e. solar cycles being one of them), tells me there is a lot more science to be done.
History has shown time and time again, the climate alarmists have no understanding of the science.

Edit world population has increased 8 fold in the last 200 years.
That, to me, is the more concerning problem. The more people, the greater the drain on resources.
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
Yep, that is the nature of science. Accepted science on the day can be changed in the future.
When my son graduated from Monash Uni with a science degree they had one of Australias top scientist speak to all the grads , the basic break down of what she said was always question everything because the more we think we know the more we realise there is even more we don't know
 

denk

Active Member
I quote: From 2004 to 2009, Koonin was employed by BP as the oil and gas company’s Chief Scientist.

Hardly someone I would trust about climate change.
yet here you are filling your diesel guzzling fourby up with said product lol
 

denk

Active Member
I mean all of them. The planet is choking on the amount of rubbish we produce. Personally I think there's no hope because everyone is addicted to BS. We could all live quite comfortably on 12 volts in my opinion, but nobody would.
Even in the Atctic? Siberia?
 
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